Hai hai, Ziggy desu.
Today, Ziggy was thinking about a series where Divine magic gets revealed to not be Divine. Basically, the premise is the church is evil as they are not using "miracles" but instead "altering" reality to heal people. True healing magic in that series was actually stamped out but the process of healing people led to soul degradation as you erasing them from existence at the moment and replacing them with a copy of themself before they were hurt. It's effectively the whole Teleporter Paradox in Star Trek or the plot twist of The Prestige.
But Ziggy was thinking, Divine magic in Overlord is weird too.
Consider:
Doesn't something feel "off"?
Why does healing magic require COOPERATION or the effects are dampened? Why does healing magic erase parts that disappear but not if they are transformed? Why does it undo muscle training?
Practically, Demiurge's experiemnts show that at least what healing magic does is not "heal". Otherwise, the removed pieces would return to the person no matter what. Instead, this shows several facts about the New World.
The first is that once something is doen to the old flesh, ie if you convert it from residue of a creature into an item (scrolls, meat, etc) healing magic no longer considers it part of the creature at all. But healing magic still works and can heal even when the missing bits are no longer there.
Isn't that weird?
That is to say, those pieces never really mattered at all.
So just like in that other series, healing magic isn't "healing". It's returning people to their previous states.
Just look at Resurrection. Doesn't that return a body from death to life?
So rather than medicinal, this is closer to causality alteration.
Well if we consider that Divine mages are borrowing the power of the Clouds of Energy, this may not be so far fetched. These "Gods" just alter reality to "heal". In a way, it's a bit wasteful.
That brings us to what Demiurge was doing in these experiments in the Holy Kingdom. What did he find out? Why was he doing this?
Well, he's stumbled onto an exploitable facet of this world: Divine magic doesn't heal. That's why it can recreate people even when it no longer recognizes the former pieces it can recreate them.
What it appears Demiurge is doing now is he's trying to see if this "recreation" actually can be altered. IE, if you give an organ transplant, does Divine magic consider that the "self" or the "other". Effectively, does the Divine magic process undo an organ transplant or do people have their "data" updated with transplants and so Divine magic considers that the new default?
This is a sensible question. It appears to undo muscle training. Well all muscles are is the tearing and healing of muscle fiber that "scabs", well more or less.
Muscle growth can be considered a scar of sorts on teh muscular system. Hence why it can be undone. But what of transplants? Those are distinctly not of the person. They are from another being but the origianl part is often replaced. If the body still functions after that, would that new organ be considered part of the self?
THis is a very complicated question. We know Divine magic has no problem replacing missing parts. But how does it determine what is the ORIGINAL state?
Discovering that mechanism means you could permamently cripple people from being healed by Divine magic since you know how to exploit weaknesses in the magic process. Likewise, you could find out how to enhance people by swapping out weak parts for stronge rones and making that a person's new ORIGINAL state.
Keep in mind, Eruya in the WN was meant to be undergo a process like this. He was meant to be a guinea pig but the WN never revealed what the outcome was either.
Of course, Maruyama truly likes to fuck with Divine magic. Not only does it not have gods, it may not even heal people at all. But maybe that power is godlike. It can change reality to some extent even fi unintended. What else could it do?
Thsi leads into another idea: why do the scrolls retain a Tier limit and how does Undead Creation work within these retraints?
Does it chagne a person's ORIGINAL state into an undead summon? Hence Ainz is stealing a person's ORIGINAL state to turn them into one of his undead? Do scrolls show that these missing pieces once turned into scrolls retain the limits fo the their bodies (most humans cannot learn past Tier 4 due to level caps).
Will any of this ever even matter???
Probably not...
But Ziggy wanted to share that something is definitely weird about this all compared to other settings. Maybe this goes to show people in the New Wordl who practice Divine magic do not understand how their powers really work and superstition is hiding the truth. Gods and healing? Just give MP to those masses of energy and change reality itself!
Who knows the limits of this. It ceratinly fits the theme Maruyama is going for: his Divine magic is different from traditional Divine magic. His atheist world view and this queerness suggest so at least he's going for some kind of build up to something.
(o_o)7
Today, Ziggy was thinking about a series where Divine magic gets revealed to not be Divine. Basically, the premise is the church is evil as they are not using "miracles" but instead "altering" reality to heal people. True healing magic in that series was actually stamped out but the process of healing people led to soul degradation as you erasing them from existence at the moment and replacing them with a copy of themself before they were hurt. It's effectively the whole Teleporter Paradox in Star Trek or the plot twist of The Prestige.
But Ziggy was thinking, Divine magic in Overlord is weird too.
Consider:
"..Is that so then we won't need to use the potion... ..Mm. Besides, using it carelessly will remove the effects of muscle training...
..Well, it's meant to provide rapid healing, but the effect of the magic also reverts
the muscle to its original state.Just as well. You'll be going to bodyguard the Princess after this, am I right?.."[V5]
"Did I not mention it? Then, have you heard of Demiurge’s healing experiments?" "Yes, I have. Sever all four limbs. heal them with magic, those experiments, right?" "Indeed. Then, another question for you. Do you know where a resurrection spell has to be applied?" "Is it not on the corpse?" "...I don’t think so …hm, at least, I don’t think so, no?" Albedo went silent alongside Ainz, and then her eyes sparkled. "Ah! It seems I misspoke. Ainz-sama, you are correct. It is not on the corpse, but the soul!" "Indeed. In Demiurge’s experiments, the severed limbs vanished and grew from the body once more. Now, when you cast a spell on the soul, what will happen to the body?"[V3]
"First are the healing magic tests. When we cut off an arm and heal the wound with magic, the severed hand disappears. Now, if we had them eat the severed arm and then healed the wound, would the nutrients derived from the arm vanish? If we repeated this over and over again, would the people who ate the arms starve to death?"[V2]
"I doubt it. In addition, the use of healing magic allows us to skin them again. Therefore, we will not need to capture them en masse if we do not engage in large-scale production. That too is thanks to the monsters called Torturers." "Hm? Don’t severed body parts vanish when healing magic is applied?" "About that …we have learned something during our experiments with healing magic. Once some great change has occurred to the severed body parts — mincing, for example — those parts will remain. In other words, once the flayed skin has been processed, the healing magic no longer recognizes it as part of the body and it will not vanish even when the source is healed. This is also why they will not die when they are fed meat. Also, this is not exactly related, but when either the healer or the healed one rejects the magic, it will not be able to operate properly and will leave a scar. Similarly, lower tier spells are more likely to leave scars as time passes."[V4]
Would a girls hymen be restored by healing magic?[ARC]
Yes that has been on my mind. That would be healed by healing magic wouldn’t it? That was the result of all sorts of considerations, but I think it is good even if the hymen or appendix are gone? That is a gray area.
Doesn't something feel "off"?
Why does healing magic require COOPERATION or the effects are dampened? Why does healing magic erase parts that disappear but not if they are transformed? Why does it undo muscle training?
Practically, Demiurge's experiemnts show that at least what healing magic does is not "heal". Otherwise, the removed pieces would return to the person no matter what. Instead, this shows several facts about the New World.
The first is that once something is doen to the old flesh, ie if you convert it from residue of a creature into an item (scrolls, meat, etc) healing magic no longer considers it part of the creature at all. But healing magic still works and can heal even when the missing bits are no longer there.
Isn't that weird?
That is to say, those pieces never really mattered at all.
So just like in that other series, healing magic isn't "healing". It's returning people to their previous states.
Just look at Resurrection. Doesn't that return a body from death to life?
So rather than medicinal, this is closer to causality alteration.
Well if we consider that Divine mages are borrowing the power of the Clouds of Energy, this may not be so far fetched. These "Gods" just alter reality to "heal". In a way, it's a bit wasteful.
"Yes. They seemed to have done things like chopping arms off and then reattaching them to other creatures, or cutting open the subjects’ abdomens and exchanging the internal organs within. They started with blood relatives as a control group, and they branched out to combinations of humans and other lifeforms — not just demihumans, but animals too — and then they healed them with magic to see what changes occurred." "What dreadful experiments! Especially that blood relatives and body swapping stuff, how could any sane person think of such things?"[V12]
That brings us to what Demiurge was doing in these experiments in the Holy Kingdom. What did he find out? Why was he doing this?
Well, he's stumbled onto an exploitable facet of this world: Divine magic doesn't heal. That's why it can recreate people even when it no longer recognizes the former pieces it can recreate them.
What it appears Demiurge is doing now is he's trying to see if this "recreation" actually can be altered. IE, if you give an organ transplant, does Divine magic consider that the "self" or the "other". Effectively, does the Divine magic process undo an organ transplant or do people have their "data" updated with transplants and so Divine magic considers that the new default?
This is a sensible question. It appears to undo muscle training. Well all muscles are is the tearing and healing of muscle fiber that "scabs", well more or less.
Muscle growth can be considered a scar of sorts on teh muscular system. Hence why it can be undone. But what of transplants? Those are distinctly not of the person. They are from another being but the origianl part is often replaced. If the body still functions after that, would that new organ be considered part of the self?
THis is a very complicated question. We know Divine magic has no problem replacing missing parts. But how does it determine what is the ORIGINAL state?
Discovering that mechanism means you could permamently cripple people from being healed by Divine magic since you know how to exploit weaknesses in the magic process. Likewise, you could find out how to enhance people by swapping out weak parts for stronge rones and making that a person's new ORIGINAL state.
Keep in mind, Eruya in the WN was meant to be undergo a process like this. He was meant to be a guinea pig but the WN never revealed what the outcome was either.
Of course, Maruyama truly likes to fuck with Divine magic. Not only does it not have gods, it may not even heal people at all. But maybe that power is godlike. It can change reality to some extent even fi unintended. What else could it do?
Thsi leads into another idea: why do the scrolls retain a Tier limit and how does Undead Creation work within these retraints?
Does it chagne a person's ORIGINAL state into an undead summon? Hence Ainz is stealing a person's ORIGINAL state to turn them into one of his undead? Do scrolls show that these missing pieces once turned into scrolls retain the limits fo the their bodies (most humans cannot learn past Tier 4 due to level caps).
Will any of this ever even matter???
Probably not...
But Ziggy wanted to share that something is definitely weird about this all compared to other settings. Maybe this goes to show people in the New Wordl who practice Divine magic do not understand how their powers really work and superstition is hiding the truth. Gods and healing? Just give MP to those masses of energy and change reality itself!
Who knows the limits of this. It ceratinly fits the theme Maruyama is going for: his Divine magic is different from traditional Divine magic. His atheist world view and this queerness suggest so at least he's going for some kind of build up to something.
(o_o)7
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