====
[I started writing this after Volume 14, in June, and now. So if stuff is erratic well now you know. I'm just going to submit it else I'll forget... again for the third time. ]
"Two Articles After months of nothing? Did you get off jail bait parole Ziggy?"
You wound me, imaginary audience. But yeup. Actually this is an unfinished article from... June 13th. Ooof. I got busy reading and translating bullshit I imported. And porn. Lots and lots of porn. Or Sasugaing myself with my own fanfic ideas. Or creating rules for my Overlord RPG. Now I know why Dragon Lords like Mountains and Caves! Or secrets behind certain... things in Overlord. Maruyama's fantasy ghetto racism at it's finest! Fuck Platinum Dragons. Also Pour one out for Heavenly Dragon Lord our lord and savior.
Gefun Gefun. Anyway, Ziggy wants to discuss a "big" topic in Overlord: who could the original Riku be?
"13 Heroes Leader = Riku, duh Ziggy. That's easy peazy lemon squeezey"
...Umu. It seems that's the conclusion most people draw. It's a common folklore in both communities. Even Japanese fans... But let's go full autism and all that. Leave behind your preconceptions (and anything covering your ankles) [Unzips pants despite wearing slip-on basketball shorts]
folklore:
the traditional beliefs, customs, and stories of a community, passed through the generations by word of mouth.
1.) Someone named "Riku" exists
2.) PDL had a discussion with him and world class items came up
3.) PDL has killed a Player before
4.) PDL questions about "repeating history" when considering murdering a collaborator for a powerful item and placing the blame on someone else (presumably meaning this fate befell OG Riku from the Land of the Rising Sister Fuqers)
5.) PDL feels remorse but he'll do it again if it's beneficial; PDL's sheet mentions he prioritizes the bigger picture over his emo sensitive fearings
OBJECTION!
If Riku = Leader-kun, there is a flaw, or rather a discrepancy in his Best Buddies Taxonomy. Tsa makes a point to compartamentalizes people as "companions" or "collaborators"
On the one hand, he hoped that she would give him a break. On the other, hefelt that being able to banter with an old friend like this was a joyous thing
That item was not something that could be simply given away.It was a magic item made through the use of Wild Magic. The power of magic today was polluted and distorted, so making another such item was very difficult. As one of the rare few practitioners of Wild Magic, it wanted very much to ask her where exactly the ring had gone.However, it trusted its friends implicitly.
“I don’t know about that. The power that pollutes the world might have started moving once more.”There was a hole on the armor’s right pauldron, like it had been pierced by a lance.“...Have the hundred-year aftershocks come? They aren’t on the side of this world like Leader was?
[V7]
Rigrit confirmed she knew Leader-kun was a Player(implicitly) and was firmly "on the world's side" . This suggests, Leader-kun wasn't a collaborator but... a comrade.
Dun Dun Duuuuuun
>Tsa felt ashamed for his own thoughts. He had believed that Azuth had made a deal with Albedo, or perhaps the Sorcerer King directly, to betray him. How-ever, all was fair play in terms of hypotheticals, Azuth was just a collabora-tor and not a companion after all. That said, he could not prove if Azuth had switched sides or not.
[V14]
Tsa makes a big distinction in who he trusts. If Tsa murdered Riku (presumably Leader-kun by popular consensus), why would he have given him the Greed King Sword anyway? Did he give it to him just to murder him for it after? If it's a big enough deal for Tsa to limit his own freedom to prevent people ever getting them, do you get the picture? Sort of strange to arm someone you plan on killing later.
The dragon twisted its long neck and looked at the weapon behind it. At the weapon that ever since placed here, was never touched. It was a resplendent sword, with a blade of crystal. It was the weapon that the Eight Greed Kings swung to kill his brethren. And the sword that the leader of the 13 Heroes wielded.
In the base of the Eight Greed Kings, he had lent out the item as a symbol of his blessings.
[WN]
"But Ziggy, that's Web Novel...."
Quiet you, voice in my head. I'm painting a narrative. How dare you interrupt my spinning and twisting facts to my own convenience! Even Maruyama just drops Web Novel lore into Light Novel.
Even if it's not confirmed in LN, Rigrit's convo with Tsa mirrors the Web Novel one:
In the past, Tsua had travelled with the old lady and her group by controlling an empty suit of armor as a substitute for himself. Therefore, when his true identity had come out, his companions had been furious about being tricked. He wanted them to forgive him for the time when he had surprised them by removing his helmet.
[WN]
Its name was—
The dragon then blinked its eyes.
“What did he call it?” Thinking for some time, the dragon forced out some words. “….A Guilti Weapon?”
[WN]
“That weapon, was it a Guilty Weapon?”
Seeing the weapon Tsua was talking about, the old woman shook her head.
“Guilty Weapon? No. That’s a Guild Weapon.”
“Ah!” Tsua felt the fog clear from his mind. “That’s right! Yes. That’s what he said. The strongest weapon the Eight Greed Kings wielded! I see, I see. A Guild Weapon.”
[WN]
The fact Rigrit reminds Tsa what a Guild Weapons proper name is implies Leader-kun is the one who taught it to them. That means it was Leader who explained it at the time of receiving it (probably).
"But Ziggy those lines aren't in the LN"
Shush. People who say Demon Gods = Guild Base NPCs sure like to use WN info as well. What, it's fine to have double standards?
“...Have the hundred-year aftershocks come? They aren’t on the side of thisworld like Leader was?”
[V7]
“It can’t be helped. He... killed a comrade(Player)he had spent his journey with, and it got to him. I can understand why he’d decline the resurrection.Rigrit, you were shocked too, right?”The old lady looked into the distance, and she slowly nodded with a pained expression on her face.
[V7]
"On the side of this world."
"you were shocked too"
This sword — one of the eight great weapons which the Eight Greed Kings left behind — was the reason why Tsa could not leave this place.“I’ve been doing this until now, and I hope you can lend me a hand. I’d like you to collect information about magic items that can rival that sword over there... that can rival Guild Weapons. Or perhaps, special items from Yggdrasil like the strengthened armor which Red Drop — adamantite-ranked adventurers of the Kingdom — possesses.
[V7]
Although not explicit, Tsa does discuss about Guild Weapons and YGGDRASIL as if Rigrit already understands what those things are. She already understands the Player waves too.
Ziggy's reservation about Riku=Leader-kun is Tsa clearly has a strong connection to "comrades" (nakama) but not collaborators (a Japanese term that is not a meme, thanks Oda). Tsa lending out the Greed King sword as a form of trust as well as Tsa's closeness to the 13 Heroes probably is a sign Leader-kun was a comrade not a collaborator.
If Riku isn't Leader-kun, who is he? Someone we never heard about? Ziggy doesn't think so. Even if you are dead set on Leader = Riku, let's see if a more plausible candidate exists. Just for fun.
*Ziggy adjusts tinfoil hat*
"Should he just kill Azuth and take the Powered Suit?
This wasn't too bad of an idea to Tsa. If he gave the Powered Suit to someone
who was powerful enough to bend it to their will, it would definitely be more
useful than letting Azuth keep it. He could also gain a stronger card for his
hand then.
Personally, Tsa felt no disdain for Azuth, nor did he want to kill him himself,
but of what worth were emotions in this world.
...Riku
What was I reminiscing for now that things have turned out that way? Tsa
laughed at himself internally. These two hands of his were already besmirched
with filth. It was better to do it now than later.
Plus, he could blame it on the Sorcerer King if he did it now.
Azuth fought until he lost consciousness with Albedo and later handed the
Powered Suit to Tsa. That would be a good cover story.
But should he really allow history to repeat itself again?
[V14]
"Personally, Tsa felt no disdain for Azuth, nor did he want to kill him himself,
but of what worth were emotions in this world.
...Riku"
"But should he really allow history to repeat itself again?"
"allow history to repeat itself "
This implies Riku was someone similar to Azuth, a collaborator not a comrade. One with a powerful item worth murdering for. And someone whose murder could be pinned on someone Tsa is at odds with or he would not mind being blamed for it. He was in fact murdered after Tsa learned a bit about Guilds and World-class items from him. And finally, the blame was put on some convenient enemy Tsa seems to be opposed to.
That was certainly possible. He had heard from Riku that there were guilds that possessed two WCIs, so it was possible that they had two too.
[V14]
This time, there was a new book-original character. So there is another, thus the New World’s Overlord appears.When that girl is present, there are 5 ’Godly Equipments [ hashira no soubi ],when that girl is not, there are only 4 Godly Equipments.
[V4AT]
’It was like I thought!’ the man drew near Ainz and genuflected on one knee, sincerely bowing in loyalty. ’Your expulsion by those that committed the Grave Sin[daizai]was no more than a falsely handed down tradition!
[WN]
By the way, I will tell people that read the concluding part. The oral tra-dition he is talking about is quite convenient. Due to the passage of time,one part of history has been distorted or viewed as convenient stories inOverlord.In reality it is not expulsion but ’killed/beat to death’. Therefore it is as-suredly a Grave Sin.Ah, to Tsa and the Theocracy the meaning of the Grave Sin differs slightly.Tsa had a deal with the 6 Great Gods, to strike the 8 Greed Kings together.Oh it’s dangerous if you catch that guy and extract information!For that reason, could you please vaguely understand things about TheSix Great Gods and The Eight Greed Kings and The Theocracy. 500 yearsago, some sort of thing happened.
[Twitter December 2014]
Are you piecing it together?
“….Could she also be a god?”
“I cannot say that it is impossible…. But she might be a True Dragon King.”
“Are you saying that they broke the 500-year-old World Pact? No, under these cases, the Pact has yet to be broken.”
Edgar frowned. It was an alliance against the poison that stained the world. The strongest contract that protected the Slane Theocracy. It would not break even under the worst circumstances.
[WN]
For reference, the New World considers a pact to be:
The anti-Sorcerous Kingdomalliance was forming at a snail’space,but progress was smooth nonetheless. They were at the stage of relying on the generos-ity and solidarity of other countries to hopefully get them to sign the mutual reinforcement pact at all costs, in other words, it was an unreliable relation-ship without written agreements. Something like that could not be publicly announced as an alliance.There were simply too many things to do to form a tight alliance, they wouldneed at least a few months to sort it out.
[V14]
the mutual reinforcement pact at all costs, in other words, it was an
unreliable relation-ship without written agreements. Something like that
could not be publicly announced as an alliance.
Ainz cautioned Jircniv about agreeing to things verbally too. It's also partly why Ainz wanted an OFFICIAL alliance.
It would seem the best option was to bluff his way through, somehow.After deciding on the direction his words would take, Ainz made his reply.“It is too dangerous to verbally agree on such matters. I cannot make animmediate reply, but I believe such issues should be set down in writing.”“Then, does it mean that once I hand the document to you, you will approveof it?
[V10]
Whether players were present or not, Ainz did not want to launch straightinto hostilities without a dialogue.After all, things were not progressing very well with the neighboringcountries.Now that they had to vassalize the country which they appeared to have hadthe best relations with, their name would live in infamy if they ended upwaging war on the Dwarves as well.Therefore, they had to do their best to sign a treaty of friendship with theDwarves. This way, they could show the nearby countries that the SorcerersKingdom was an entity which could abide by pacts and agreements. This wouldalso give them the moral high ground and allow them to limit the actionswhich could be taken by any players hiding out there
[V11]
Here's Ziggy proposition:
Tsa formed a pact with Surshana(Riku) as a collaborator 500 years ago. Specifically a VERBAL pact. After learning about the Greed Kings and guilds, and perhaps fearing Slaine siding with the Greed Kings (a group that came in what is most definitely a guild base and would probably sidewith humanoids over the dragon lords or many non humanoid races), Tsa murders Riku to acquire an item of great power and pins the blame on the Greed Kings.Also to prevent the Greed Kings and Riku uniting against the Dragon Lords. Tsa feels bad but it was for the greater good and it didn't seem like Riku could be considered on the world's side or a comrade(nakama): given Slaine's teachings he was probably fine with "abusing" his power for his people's sake and or he was worshipped out of apepasement at least in the Web Novel (and given Ainz is an undead Player too we see there really are no hormonal or residual reasons to feel for people you trample on as an undead). The Great Gods were not shy or humble about their power as Slaine describes them(V10).
This connection would explain why Tsa knew an Undead named Rufus exists in Slaine (unless there is some never mentioned event where Rufus went public) . Similarly, it explains why it's implied Slaine wanted to go to Tsa about mobilizing Zesshi or wiping out the Elven Kingdom. Volume 2 mentions Dragonlords would probably declare war on Slaine for harboring Godkin (presumably) yet Tsa doesn't appear to be as belligerent. Slaine was really only scared of a war with him due to the uninformed picking a fight with his nation escalting into probable mass murder since DragonLords are 'jobbers' to Players but can murder real good.
So what would the great idea be that tipped the balance to murder of Surshana = Riku?
Slaine still possesses Player items but of these 5 of great importance stand out.
Slaine mobilized a Godkin and the entire Black Scripture to protect the World class item, Downfall of Castle and Country.
"Ziggy you can't be implying that Slaine has 5 World class items! Even Riku said guild only had at most 2!"
I hear you, dissenting voice in my head. But there's a simple assumption most fans have I find strange: there has never been mention of a Great God guild base in history. Isn't it possible that each Great God came alone, one world class item a piece? Why is that so difficult to consider?
Especially after the reveal of the number of 'Divine Treasures'. Look at their nation: it's six sects united, not one mega culture to a certain guild or sect. Separate but equal kappa. Nigun explained it too, everyone respected each others gods , not that they all prayed to all six (the WN even explicitly has someone pray to a god that was not their own). Even the Pontiff's seat was rotated from monopolization from any single sect. That only supports the idea these Players came alone and banded together. Riku wasn't wrong about up to 2 world items per guild, six separate transfers would suggest six separate world class items. Riku may have only had one world class item, but the Great Gods could of possibly had 6 World class items collectively.
The Slane Theocracy believed in the Six Great Gods, worked together as an organisation, and built a country. Thus while they had different gods, they had the same goal could work together on them. Then what would happen if only one of the gods descended?
At worst, there was the possibility that the power balance within the temples would crumble. However she could not erase what had happened.
Should a god truly appear, she would fall on her knees. In front of a being that she should obey.
However what was scary was that the being looked like [Surshana]. The god that granted eternal peace to those with life, and the god that granted eternal despair. And the god that was stronger than the other five.
If it was true—
The Vice-Head Priest of the Water God’s body shook. She then prayed. Not to her god, but to the God of Death [Surshana].
[WN]
They — the Slaine Theocracy — might be divided into six sects, butwhenever they needed to act, they did so as one.One reason for that was because everyone respected each other’s gods.
[V1]
Next were the Cardinals, the highest appointment holders of the six sects that were devoted to the Six Gods. Incidentally, each of them(aside from the one belonging to the same sect as the current Pontifex Maximus)was a potential candidate to be the next Pontifex Maximus.
[V10]
So the fact Tsa murdered Riku for an item and blamed someone else for it is supported in Slaine only possessing 5 very important items, assuming these special items are world class items instead of say each Player's sole God class item or something. Unless one of the Great Gods were a NPC or not a Player at all. Or a pair came together in some base. Etc etc.
It's often portrayed as all of them are Players:
The Slane Theocracy worshipped Six Great Gods. And there were those amongst its population that had inherited the blood of Gods. They had the hidden potential to become much, much stronger.
In a sense, even Clementine had their blood.
However, that was all she had. She was far away from being called a Godkin
Those were people who had awakened the power of the Gods hidden in their blood.
Currently, the Theocracy only had two. One was the Head of the Black Scripture that Clementine used to work for, and the other was the Head Priest of the Theocracy.
Their abilities were on another level
[WN]
“Could he be a God-kin?”The offspring of the beings known as “Players” were people who might awaken incredible power from within themselves. The Slaine Theocracy called these people demigods. Or, more precisely, they were the ones who carried the bloodline of the Six Gods within their veins. If they had the blood of others,they would be termed differently.It seemed very likely that this Momon was of the bloodline of a “Player”. Or rather, it would be better to say that no human could have possessed such power.
[V6]
Momon is too humble. Normally, someone withthat much strength would flash it around much more. Yes, just like the Eight Greed Kings. Or perhaps, like our Gods.”“I see. So the reason why he did not do that was because he was on the lookout for others. No, perhaps he was being watchful for others on the same level as him.
[V10]
Since Surshana is undead, and Godkin are descendants of Players, we can pretty much conclude at least one other Player came with Surshana. The reason being at least one person that was a Plyaer needed to leave descendants behind. Using possible evidence:
The god of death—-Sulshana
Giving eternal rest to those with life, the god that gave an everlasting despair.
Written in the scriptures as stronger than both the god of life and the other four gods, as humans could not escape the scythe of death. And that was more than life, a god that absolutely exists.
[WN]
You could suppose only the God of Life and Death were Players because for some reason the Four Elemetnal Gods were considered inferior to both. Our evidence, at bare minimum, can only prove there was at least two: Surshana and a Player who left descendants behind (obviously because Surshana is undead).
As an aside, Surshana being 'stronger' could refer to him being a more veteran Player, possessing a better world class item, better gear, or even being the only one of the 6 Great Gods to have subordinates (ie Monster summoning data items). If Rufus = Undead Adjutant, he would rival two Great Gods in a fight with just that alone. It could just be a misunderstanding about 'Death' never ending even after Surshana was 'expelled' ie murdered too. Most people just interpret it as Surshana's level was the largest.
Now, one claim Ziggy didn't substantiate is : No Great God guild base was ever noted in history. Many cite:
The god that can control fear, death and disease, normally he would be considered an evil god. Most of the smaller gods he had as subordinates would be quite wicked. But, weirdly he fell to the earth, and was not a god that would freely spread vice. It anything, it was more like the smaller gods belonged to other gods.
[WN]
魔神 ：13英雄が封じた存在。悪魔の王的存在？ 6大神の従属神が堕落して悪魔となった存在？
Demon Gods: Beings that were sealed by the 13 Heroes. Existence that could be known as the Demon Kings? The deities that once served the Six Great Gods fell and became the Demon Gods?
[WN]
“I know it... I know your true identities! — Demon Gods! You must be Demon Gods.”There were scant few intelligent beings that Nigun knew of, which could stand on par with the highest tier angels:The Six Gods which Nigun believed inThe kings of the mighty Draconic races — the Dragon Lords.The legendary monster who could destroy an entire country — Landfall.And one more — the Demon Gods.He had heard that the Thirteen Heroes had defeated and sealed away theDemon Gods. Judging by that wave of evil from just now, that must have been aDemon God about to break its seal.
[V1]
It's important to note the Demon Gods are typically described as being "sealed". Not killed, not defeated but sealed. Subordinate gods. Sealed. People come to the conclusion they are guild base nPCs because you can 'beat' them but they are not gone for good. Only 'sealed' ie returned to their base for example ready to be resummoned. That's the reasoning given at least by Demon Gods = Base nPCs believers.
The main argument is: no 'sealing' spell really comes up. Not by Tsa to counter Ainz, not by any of the former 13 Heroes, and not by Fluder either. So generally it's agreed on it's a misinterpretation of some sort. What it's really standing for is debated. 'NPCs that can be resummoned' 'Mercenaries that just need more gold to summon' 'Beings summoned by magic items ala Demon summoning statue'.
In particular, the theory is Surshana's guild base already came up too (presumably):
he being before him was the King of the Dead. A god from the realm of myths.
The Evil God they worshipped, was a nameless god, said to be one with death and darkness. He built his palace in a land of freezing cold, where he held dominion over the frozen souls of the dead.
Then, what he just did, was most definitely the release of a breath that could freeze their souls.
....
This cult was originally created to be a subsidiary of Zuranon. The God of Darkness was a being worshipped by the Slane Theocracy and they used it as a base to fabricate the Evil God.
[WN]
The problems were the guild with Asgard’s flying castle, the guild with the frozen palace(sic: Glacier Castle) in the deepest part of Helheim, and the guild that owned the field which spawned Fire Giants in Muspelheim. These 3 guilds rivalled Ainz Ooal Gown.
If this guild came, it would be beneficial if they began a friendly relationship.
However, if that was not the case?
He did not know how many guild members were left. And there were several people who could easily rival himself. It was important to behave such as to prevent any future hostilities. On the other hand, knowledge of their war potential needed to be gathered.
[WN]
Some dungeons could only be found under certain conditions. For instance, the entrance to a dungeon amidst a field of flowers in the depths of a forest could only be seen under the light of the full moon. A notable example of this was the Frozen City in Niflheim, which could only be entered during a blizzard.
[Prologue]
People interpret 'palace in a freezing cold place' to be an example of one of the possible locations imported from YGGDRASIL under the Demon God Guild Base NPC hypothesis.
The interpretation being "Surshana " held dominion over dead souls. IE dead souls = dead NPCs. The Demon gods are 'sealed' because they are not dead forever but can be brought back using the base. Leader, realizing these are guild base nPCs probably told of them only being temporarily dead ie "sealed"Similar to how Ainz can revive dead NPCs. Likewise, Surshana having some secret guild base also explains why Slaine only possesses 5 not 6 World class items: Surshana's would then be tied to his guild base somehow under that line of reasoning.
The only problem I cannot reconcile as is why are the Demon Gods considered so weak then even if we assume there is some hidden guild base? Similarly, so far as it was brought up, it seemed mainly Surshana alone is associated with these 'subordinate' gods and no mention of some powerful or otherworldy city exists outside Clementine's fabricated Evil God backstory. It could just as likely be Surshana was part of a guild that conquerored one of these but it did not transfer with him (Yo, my guild base used to be that super rare ice place). People know of the floating castle and floating city at least. Even in these human boonies.
Similarly, Slaine talks about going to Surshana's 'first follower' to confirm if he really returned, not if the guild list in his base for instance (assuming non NPCs/non Players can even access it in the innermost parts of the base).
That leads into my next point: Surshana has a firt follower. "first". If he came with a base and NPCs, wouldn't this being be referred to as 'one of the Subordinate gods'? Ziggy's still of the opinion First Follower = Rufus = Undead Adjutant. ie Level 90 meat shield for a lone caster.
“Impossible. The oral traditions state that the God of Death, Surshana-sama,was slain by the damnable Eight Greed Kings. This must be something else.And if Surshana-sama had actually descended once more, that person wouldsurely have told us. After all, that person is Surshana-sama’s first follower.”
[V10]
Subordinate gods seems like a misinterpretation by old Slaine to be honest. Similar to how Angels were first seen as messengers of the Great Gods.
Angels.Angels were monsters summoned from another world, and many people —particularly, the citizens of the Slaine Theocracy — believed them to bemessengers of the gods. However, the priests of the Kingdom ruled that theseso-called angels were merely summoned monsters.While these religious disputes were part of the reason why the countrieswere set against each other, Gazef felt that their status as divine messengerswas secondary to their strength as monsters.
[V1]
To this end, we’re in desperate need of spies capable of obtainingtop-secret intel from our neighbors... We’re still too weak on that front.To create a POP monster that Nazarick would not automatically respawn
required two ingredients. One was the monster’s data and the other was the corresponding amount of gold coins from Yggdrasil.Though the library of Nazarick contained data on various types of monsters, it did not contain the data of every single type of monster from Yggdrasil. Some monster’s data were of limited use too. For example, they had already exhausted theirsupply of data on Hanzos and the library did not contain any data for the creation of Eight-Edge Assassins.The creation of higher-tiered monsters incurred the cost of a large sum of gold.If that was the case, shouldn’t weaker monsters suffice? Though hewanted to say so, actually using themwould mean that there would be a higher chance of them getting caught whenever they tried to infiltrate someplace.Amongst the surrounding nations, it wasn’t inconceivable to think that they weren’tthe only ones capable of employing monsters. It would bebest for them to use higher-tiered monsters who were harder for others to detect while their country was still of modest size.
[V14]
As we see in the sidestory Ainz didn't summon Mercenary monsters at all, probably because most people didn't carry around monster data. It's a different story if you had a guild base to keep them, but a solo Player that relied on Mercenary monsters (instead of fellow Players) would actually possess monster data however if they didn't keep a library in a guild base.
The criminal organization which grew these drugs was known as EightFingers. The name came from the eight-fingered God of Thieves who was avassal of the Earth God. It was a vast criminal syndicate that dominated theKingdom’s underworld.
[V5]
“...In the past, I believed in a lesser deity who governed magic. However, ifyou are not that god, then I shall promptly renounce my faith. That is becausethe true god has deigned to appear before me.
[V7]
The Buddha he followed hailed from the far South, and had few followers.Some viewed him as one of the followers of the Four Gods. There was little known about him and there had been no interest in building a temple to such a god within the Imperial Capital. However, Jircniv did know that this man’s existence was considered a nuisance of sorts.
[V10]
Divanack? The Demon God of Corruption and Pleasure?”Climb asked from the side.Divanack was different from the Demon Gods the 13 Heroes defeated, but wasa Demon God, and ruled rotten desires. He was burned by the Fire God, andlocked in the Demon Realm.The eight βingers he had, contained the mean-ing of the eight desires that humans had. “Then, do they have a cult behindthem?”“It would be great if that were true. They are simply using that name. Accord-ing to the guild.”
[WN]
However — she was unhurt.Evileye usedFlyto get back up in a way that defied common sense.She was unhurt. However, had she not used a spell which converted physicaldamage to mana depletion, she would probably be dying by now.“Penetrate Maximize Magic - Crystal Dagger.”She created a crystal dagger that was bigger than usual. This spell causedpure physical damage, which was not easily resisted. In addition, she had used askill to allow it to breach spell resistance more easily.The demon did not dodge, but took it on his body. The spell’s damagepotential had been maximized, yet it did not seem to have affected the demonat all.“...I couldn’t hurt him even with a spell enhanced with Penetrate Magic...?This high-level demon is beyond my expectations, no, he might be beyond theDemon Gods! Could he be the King of the Demon Gods?!”Just adding the word “Lord” to a name did not make a monster stronger, butthe more powerful members of a species often called themselves “Lords” or“Kings”. That was common knowledge in this world.
...
The fact remained that Jaldabaoth existed, a demon with power surpassingthe Demon Gods by far.
[V6]
“Yes. Normally, all we would have to do is wait for reinforcements from thesouth to arrive, but we have reports saying that Jaldabaoth used a mysteriouspower to destroy the wall in a single blow. As long as that tremendous factor ofuncertainty in play...”
...
“Umu. Such unbelievable power makes me think of the might of the DemonGods from the stories.”
“Nee-sama, even the Demon Gods weren’t this powerful. For all we know,Jaldabaoth might be a being superior to the Demon Gods.”
[V12]
The Surshana secret guild base theory explains this by saying only weak Demon Gods existed because all the strong ones attempted to face the Greed Kings and lost. In particular just as Ainz only let the Pleiades or stronger out to operate, people say Surshana forbid the less than level 50 NPcs / future demon Gods from heading out.
Now there are theories of the Demon Gods rampaging to try to revive the strong NPCs too. It goes full Dead Space / Mass Effect too, claiming they waited 300 years so civilization got advanced enough to make many magic items to harvest via the guild shredder to amass enough coins for said resurrection.
"Ziggy why are you cucking and derailing your own head canon article?"
Isn't it disingenuous for me not to bring up a competing argument? I may disagree with it, but it doesn't mean I don't see merit in an alternate interpretation or belief. I've seen a LOT of Overlord theory crafting. This is just one of the more interesting ones that sounds plausible with how little we know. End of the day, it's all head canon until we get more evidence. I could've of brought up Enslaved Demon King theory too. But I won't.
disingenuous:
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
It would be hypocritcal for me to want people to be open minded without being open minded myself after considering the evidence.
Ziggy would argue the Six Great Gods were probably distinct Players or beings at least. You can confirm 2 but it's probably more. Since given special marriage practices and preserving bloodlines and Elf King's own trouble having "awakened" children, there was probably enough descendants for them to figure out incest is wincest in terms of power levels. It's very strange Zesshi was born from two separate Awakened bloodlines fusing. Similarly Slaine speaks about 'preserving' bloodlines and strangely keeps tabs on heritage.NPCs being able to have children is a mystery. Seems like Ainz's guild base NPCs think its possible.
Ironically, it was some native isolated Lizardmen we see also possess awakened bloodlines. Naturally people breeding would be more closely related in such an insular society.
The sects aside, let's scrutinize those supposed world class items some more.
The exact verbage for these 5 Great Relics is is "5 hashira no soubi". Soubi just means equipment or articles of items . Originally I believed hashira was read as a noun, ie "pillars" or "keystones". I've even seen people say it was supoosed to mean Zesshi was one of "5 trump cards" That's wrong btw since "equipment is never used to refer to any of Slaine's human resources". I only learned later that "hashira" once following a number actually implies the things are of great veneration. Similar to mementos of ancestors or something with a spirit inside it. If we reread it this way it is "there are 5 Relics Items " or "5 Heirloom Armaments". "Relic" expresses that idea the best but is already an item grade in YGGDRASIL so.... leads to confusion. "Heirloom" or "venerated" are perhaps better ways to read it.
Irregardless of their world class item status, there are five items of great power in Slaine and Zessshi is equipped with one.
"Ziggy you can't assume those are world class items... REEEEEEE"
The reason was top secret, so he could not tell his subordinates, but Nigunknew the truth.The Black Scripture was protecting the holy relic "Kei Seke Kouku" in preparation against the resurrection of the Catastrophe Dragon Lord
[V1]
That qípáo was called Downfall of Castle and Country(Kei Seke Kouku). This was a sacred treasure left behind by the gods who saved all humanity, and its power exceeded that of anything which Shalltear carried.(TL Note: 倾城倾国: this is the item Nigun mentioned as “Kei Seke Kouku” in Vol.1)
[V3]
Ainz produced a crystal and showed it to the intrigued Ainzach.“...It can’t be! It’s impossible, unbelievable...” Rakesheer shouted, beforepanting:“I once read an old tome... they say that the Theocracy possesses powerfulmagic items which they consider their national treasures. This is one of them...a spell-sealing crystal.
[V3]
“The power of the gods, Downfall of Castle and Country, will probably not work on that fellow who can use wild magic, unlike with the Catastrophe Dragon Lord. How about using it on the Sorcerer King?”
Silence descended over the meeting room. It was a proposal that they were thinking, but could not speak.
“...It’s not a bad idea, but the fact that we don’t know what sort of power the Sorcerer King’s subordinates possess makes me uneasy.”
“...If only it could charm without limit, there would be no problems.”
“How dare you! The gods gave their lives to protect us, humanity! And to think you would be dissatisfied with the secret treasures they left behind? The audacity!
[V10]
Slaine gave out a Spell Sealing Crystal to Nigun and the world at large knows of them, or at least the Adventurer guild does. But as Nigun described it, Downfall was mobilized alongside the entire Black Scripture sans Zesshi. In the WN and LN we see the black Scripture normally does not mobilize the entire unit for tasks. It's clear Slaine put far more value on their World class item than a somewhat known Spell Sealing crystal. It's even called the power of the Gods even.
Slaine's top echelon understands the "power of the gods" doesn't work in general on True Dragon Lords at least. You could interpret that only Downfall has that designation (a loose understanding of world class items trumping other effects) but you can also interpret it as as Slaine possesses more than one item of that power level. Given layers could of come alone, and Slaine guards their items, isn't it more likely they had more World Class Items, hence why they didn't say "the most supreme magical item/relic"?
"That's bullshit Ziggy REEEEEEE"
“I can’t deny what she’s seen any more. This is magic of the gods. 11th tiermagic, I believe? That should be it.”“The advent of the gods.”
[V10]
All I want to say is if Slaine calls 'Super Tier ' (magic evne nPCs cannot copy in nearly all cases)' magic of the gods' can we not also postulate 'power of the gods', already used to refer to one world class item, cannot also refer to magic items only Gods (Players) typically possess but seem to not work on Wild Magic users? Members of the Black Scripture already treat 'God Level' as it's own power level.
So back to Demon Gods and Guild Bases.
What's strange is why Slaine doesn't mention amassing funds or items to try to bring back Demon Gods if they really did possess a guild base. The issue with the guild conjecture is that your only clue it may exist is the Demon Gods. You can just as easily attribute to Surshana/Cardinals just using lots of Mercenary monsters of around level 40ish (stronger than most anything else) for whatever purpose. Even Surshana's first follower can be explained as Surshana just using Undead Adjutant instead of a guild base NPC. My point is the Demon God's lower level makes more sense if you consider them Mercenaries summoned by amassing wealth in the New World. Seems more plausible than assuming a guild base just had level 40s at best in it for a bunch of NPCs.
It's probably easier to assume a Player had gold and mercenary monster summoning items than a super secret never mentioned before or described guild base. If we presume Tsa murdered Surshana for an item, it's more likely it was for a world class item given the only item Tsa seems on guard for are world class items(items comparable to guild weapons) or guild weapons.
==
As things stand, Ziggy leans more toward the conjecture Riku was Surshana not the leader of the 13 Heroes because most of the 'counter points' can also be contested as conjectures popular in folklore in the community but with rationally viable arguments. There is room for debate about why the Demon Gods were around, but you can just as easily say they were Mercenaries and Surshana's world class item/ 'Godly item' was stolen by Tsa (instead of Surshana came in some secret Guild base with an attached world class item). Platinum Dragon's are cunts and he probably iced Surshana and put all the blame on the Greed Kings. That cunt.
Plus, he could blame it on the Sorcerer King if he did it now.
[V14]
Plus, he could blame it on the Greed Kings if he did it now.
[VHeadcanon]
Dun Dun Duuuuuuuuun
Bonus:
You know how people in Slaine worshipped Surshana out of fear?
Or how PVP in YGGDRASIL was cut throat?
Why would Riku tell Tsa so much? Why would he even trust him or even try to oppose the Greed Kings ina pact if he was the last god?
Slaine Arc Plot Twist:
Riku=Surshana=an NPC summon
First Follower = Rufus = Player
Dun Dun Duuuuuun
That soudns like bullshit, but consider it. Would an Undead Player easily trust fellow Players who all came separately if he now was made less empathetic and rational? And if he was just an average person, wouldn't it be safer to let an Overlord Wiseman run things, a being with some flavor text probably related to being 'wise'? If Surshana and his first follower came alone, then not even the other Gods would understand it was all an act.
Dun Dun Duuuuuuun
It's the perfect deception. And it's exactly what Ainz does with andora's Actor to fool his enemies or potential threats like a Rogue Sebas. Tsa already fell for Ainz's deception, so if now why not in the past when he had even less YGGDRASIL understanding?
And if Surshana-sama had actually descended once more, that person
wouldsurely have told us. After all, that person is Surshana-sama’s
first follower.”
[V10]
Everyone aassumes this means Surshana = Player. But couldn't First Follower be the summoner and Surshana be the summon? This 'fact' still is true if you switch the master and servant. A master would know if his connection to a summon was restored no?
It also explains why 'Riku' told Tsa some guilds only had 2 World class items when Ainz indicates 3 was actually possible. The Cardinal's strange lack of awareness about Godkin makes more sense too if you consider the Black Scripure knew about Godkin in detail and this strange undead Rufus but Slaine's rulers didn't bring him up at all. Also the Black Scripture seem willing to kill on any sign of a information leak.
Ziggy knows that sounds bullshit, but think about it:
Is a Player going to call themself Surshana, or something silly like Rufus? Surshana, almost certainly a corruption of -盧舎那仏- is too meaningful a name. Or not.
Ziggy Fever dream:
Riku summons an Overlord Wiseman
"Don't kill any humies, got it?"
"Humie...Dai-suki...?"
"Good."*hides in a barrel*
"Murder.All.Xeno.Scum." (Master said only humanity will be spared. That means there is no mercy for any other)
=========
"Bro, you're like totally zen and calm. Like a Buddha in Sage Mode."
"Riku-sama?"
"Stahp. YOU'RE Riku. I'm Rufus. Walking around with a Japanese name is painting a target on your back. Here's the plan, you summoned ME. Good? Imma hide in cave, I leave it to you 'Riku'."
=====
"Rufus-sama!!! Sur-Surshana-sama's been-"
"Yeah yea, old news. "
"We need to avenge-"
"No way fag. Go getyourself murdered. Imma hide."
It's mostly a shitpost.Mostly. Rufus taught Quintia howto force responsibilities on others!
"You're pretty good at passing the buck, kid. But you still have much to learn. I'll leave it to you. The NEETo life's neato!!I'LL NEVER WORK AGAIN AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!"
"No. Wait-"
Mid sentence Quintia's face blooms into a smile as Rufus pretends togo down stair behind a couch fort.
"'He got me. "
"Remember the path to happiness: never do what you can sucker other people into."
"Is that a teaching of Surshana-sama!?"
"Sure. yup. He said it himself. Now, bring me pillows."
