Enslaved Demon King Theory:
>https://pastebin.com/ctgXVSAK
That's the thread I translated with the Japanese boiz
when they first struck on the notion the Demon God war was all a front. A
work. Collusion.
I'll try to summarize what's important.
# First, in Volume 7 you learn Leader-kun, the Leader of the 13 Heroes killed his friend, a fellow Player.
>"If only we had preserved all of
Leader’s knowledge, things would not be so troublesome. He died too young."
>"It can’t be helped. He …killed a comrade (Player) he had spent his journey
with, and it got to him. I can understand why he’d decline the resurrection.
Rigrit, you were shocked too, right?"
[V7]
# Second, the Web Novel gave this hint, that is the Demon Gods were really NPCs for the Theocracy and 6 Great Gods
>Demon Gods: Beings that were sealed by the 13 Heroes. Existence that
could be known as the Demon Kings? The deities that once served the
Six Great God fell and became the Demon Gods?
[WN]
=======================
Reference Dump
>The god that can control fear, death and disease, normally he would be
considered an evil god. Most of the smaller gods he had as subordinates
would be quite wicked. But, weirdly he fell to the earth, and was not
a god that would freely spread vice. It anything, it was more like the
smaller gods belonged to other gods.
The reason why the people of this country worshipped this god which
could be called an evil god, was as to beg him to not bring down his
power of vice on them.
[WN]
>“Tier 6. While you may not think it is amazing, but the most recent case
of being able to use it was 200 years ago. The ones known as the 13
Heroes. . . .Do you understand? The existence of the Tier 10 is unclear,
so the highest rank that humans can use is Tier 6. Well, the ones who
fought the 13 Heroes, the evil gods could use Tier 7 though. . . .”
[WN]
>He had heard how terrifying demons were. It was said that two hundred
years ago, a being known as the king of the demons — the Demon God
— had led demons under his banner, and had almost exterminated the
entire world.
The Demon God had met his end at the hands of the thirteen heroes
which vanquished him, and in a certain place it was still possible to see
traces of that battle.
[WN]
>“Could it be a noble predating the foundation of the Kingdom?”
>“You mean 200 years ago?”
>200 years ago, the Demon Gods laid waste to many countries. Around
here, there were few countries with a history of more than 200 years.
The Kingdom, Holy Kingdom, and the Empire was established
within the 200 years history.
[WN]
>“There, the Eight Fingers of Divanack do lots of business there.”
“Divanack? The Demon God of Corruption and Pleasure?”
Climb asked from the side.
Divanack was different from the Demon Gods the 13 Heroes defeated,
but was a Demon God, and ruled rotten desires. He was burned by the
Fire God, and locked in the Demon Realm.
The eight fingers he had, contained the meaning of the eight desires that
humans had.
[WN]
>The criminal organization which grew these drugs was known as Eight Fingers.
The name came from the eight-fingered God of Thieves who was a vassal
of the Earth God. [V6]
>"There’s quite a few human nations around here, like the Kingdom, the Holy
Kingdom, the Empire, and so on. But did you know, Gagaran? The further you
are from here, the fewer human-led nations there are.
All of them are countries composed of demihumans or species that are
superior to mankind. Did you know that some of them even trade in humans
as slaves? The reason why
there aren’t any of those countries around here is because the Slaine Theocracy
has been going around and exterminating any demihumans that pop their
heads up."
>"Basically, all humans should think highly of the Theocracy. It’s true that they’re
ruthless, which is a demerit, but even so, nobody else has done more for mankind
as a whole …of course, whether or not someone the few they abandoned could
say the same thing is a different matter entirely. Besides, it’s quite likely that
they were the ones who founded the Adventurer’s Guild."
>"Seriously?"
>"Who knows? There’s no telling if it’s true or not, but the possibility is very
high. After all, the Adventurer’s Guild was founded after the battle with the
Demon Gods, when humanity’s strength had been greatly diminished. I suspect
they were preserving their power and wanted to aid the various nations
without causing friction, and thus they set up that organization."
[V6]
>The name of Six Arms came from the brother to the god of thieves, who had
six arms. That name referred to the strongest fighters of the Security Division.[V6]
>Nigun brought the crystal out in his trembling hand. His subordinates, usually
vigorous and nimble, were chained down by fear and their movements
were slow. Even these fearless men would hesitate when ordered to become
a shield against a monster like the one which stood before them. However, he
had to have them buy him some time, no matter what.
The magic sealed within the crystal could summon the most powerful angel
known to man. It was an angel that had single-handedly destroyed a Demon
God that rampaged throughout the land two hundred years ago. [V1]
>"No! Impossible! It cannot be! Nobody can be stronger than the highestplaced
of the angels! This is a being which can defeat a Demon God! In the
face of a foe that humanity cannot beat — it’s a bluff! It must be a bluff!"
>This angel of the highest order had once defeated the Demon Gods of legends.
Its omnipotent power was enough to qualify it as the mightiest being on the
continent. It was invincible.
>"I know it …I know your true identities! — Demon Gods! You must be Demon
Gods."
>There were scant few intelligent beings that Nigun knew of, which could stand
on par with the highest tier angels:
The Six Gods which Nigun believed in
The kings of the mighty draconic races —the Dragon Lords.
The legendary monster who could destroy an entire country —Landfall.
And one more —the Demon Gods.
He had heard that the Thirteen Heroes had defeated and sealed away the Demon
Gods. Judging by that wave of evil from just now, that must have been a
Demon God about to break its seal.
At the same time, Nigun had the faint hope that if they were Demon Gods, then
Dominion Authority might still have a chance to win.
[V1]
—Demon Gods …
Two hundred years ago, the Demon King that laid waste to the continent must
have been a creature like this.
200 years ago, several countries had been destroyed as the Demon Gods rampaged
throughout the land. It was not just human kingdoms which had been
devastated, but those of demihumans and heteromorphs. These ruined kingdoms
sometimes concealed priceless treasures; namely, magic items. Discovering
such things was arguably the dream of adventurers and Workers. [V7]
>Evileye was on Entoma’s level. If she had help, the tide might quickly turn
against her.
Thus, while Entoma was unwilling to deploy it, she decided to reveal her true
ace in the hole.
She had already used it once to exterminate everyone within the mansion in
one fell swoop, but she could still use it two more times.
It was the ability to exhale a cloud of carnivorous flies — [Fly Breath].
The flies expelled by the breath were like cattle flies. They did not eat flesh
in and of themselves, but they laid flesh-burrowing grubs. The grubs would
burrow into their victims’ bodies and cause damage over time to them. Worse,
once the larvae sprouted wings, they would become a choking swarm that
would attack anyone who entered their area of effect save certain individuals.
Entoma bared her throat, exposing her true face from where a human’s chin
would be. To an outsider, it would look like her jaw had split open,
With an awwwwrblargh, she vomited a mass of swarming flies.
>"You! Is that power connected to the Demon Gods? In that case—"
>"What on earth was that spell?"
>Evileye answered Tia’s question:
>"It’s an insect-killing spell, [Verminbane]. There was an insectile Demon God
among the Demon Gods 200 years ago. So I invented this spell to wipe out the
insects it summoned. Ah, well, it’s something like a unique creation."
...
>"...I couldn’t hurt him even with a spell enhanced with Penetrate Magic …?
This high-level demon is beyond my expectations, no, he might be beyond the
Demon Gods! Could he be the King of the Demon Gods?!"
>Just adding the word "Lord" to a name did not make a monster stronger,
but the more powerful members of a species often called themselves "Lords"
or "Kings". That was common knowledge in this world. Frankly speaking,
humans were the only species who would crown their weaker members as
kings.
[V6]
>The lizardmen did not know
And the world did not know
This was the first time such a magic was used in this world.
This was on par with the highest magic from 500 and 200 years before. [WN]
>Zaryusu had heard of demons during his travels.
He had heard of their fearsome nature. Apparently, two hundred years ago
there was a monster who was a king of demons — the Demon God, who rallied
demons to his banner and nearly destroyed the world.
The Demon God was finally defeated by the Thirteen Heroes, and the traces of
that battle could still be seen to this day. [V4]
"The fact is that many of the Thirteen Heroes were nonhumans. By the way,
they’re called the Thirteen Heroes, but there were more of them than that.
However, only 13 of them made it into song and story …the battle against the
Demon Gods was one that crossed all racial boundaries, and certain humancentric
people didn’t want to let the other species shine too much in the heroic
sagas."[V6]
>Since she lived like this all this time, Remedios was a spiritual oasis for Calca.
>"Umu. Such unbelievable power makes me think of the might of the Demon
Gods from the stories."
>"Nee-sama, even the Demon Gods weren’t this powerful. For all we know, Jaldabaoth
might be a being superior to the Demon Gods."
[V6]
>Olasird’arc glanced at the great door behind him.
Behind that door was the Dwarven City’s former treasury.
No matter how many times Olasird’arc had attacked it, it had not opened or
been destroyed. The protective magic worked on it by the Dwarven runesmiths
had defended their treasures from all the attacks he had brought to
bear on it.
His obsession with the contents of the vault had long faded, and that door was
little more than a scratching post for his claws. However, when he heard about
the Dwarves, the smoldering embers in his heart ignited once more.[V11]
>Gondo began searching again, and Ainz picked out several items which seemed
more magical than others.
"Hm? This is …?"
Among those items, Ainz discovered a sword.
It might well be the most magical item out of everything here.
"Umu …going by levels, it would be around level 50, then?"
It was long enough to be considered a longsword, and it was intricately decorated.
He was not sure if this was made in YGGDRASIL. But if it was an item of this
world, then its magical power would beggar belief. Ainz felt the body of the
sword. It was smooth and even.
"What a beautiful and exquisite sword. But there are no runes carved on it.
How could that be?"[V11]
>1. : The presence or absence of players. If there were none now, there
might still have been some around in the past.
2. : Further investigation of runes and related information. He did not
know enough about this topic. He had already learned quite a bit from
the runesmiths; runes had been around for a long time, but it was unclear
when exactly they had appeared and who had introduced them.
Part of the reason was the chaos of the Demon Gods’ attack, but Hejinmal’s
books did not contain any information on this, and neither did the
Treasury.
[V11]
>When the Demon Gods had rampaged through the Royal Capital, only one
member of the Dwarven royal family had survived. He was the last king of the
Dwarves, known as the "Runesmith King", and after taking powerful magic
items with him on his journey, there had been nothing left behind which could
be considered national treasures.
[V11]
================
This is multi-layered, but first let's address the main matter.
# Are the Demon Gods truly NPCs of the Theocracy?
The Web Novel suggested this, but it's best not to just
accept it at face value. Well we see that in that canon at least the
Demon Gods used Tier 7 magic and that there were other Demons like those
the Fire God fought. However, ironicaly, it got retconned in the Light
Novel so that the Gods associated with Eight Fingers and his brother
appeared to be subordinates of one of the Gods, the Earth God instead.
Likewise, in the WN, we know the God of Death had subordinates as well
that seemed evil. This likewise ties into whoever Surshana's first
follower is, as the ability to tell if Surshana has returned seems
eerily close to the NPC aura ability.
>"And if Surshana-sama had actually descended once more, that person would
surely have told us. After all, that person is Surshana-sama’s first follower." [V10]
>Momonga had no idea of knowing this, but the denizens of the Great Tomb of
Nazarick, or rather, all of Ainz Ooal Gown’s servants radiated a certain aura
that the servants could sense in order to determine whether a stranger was
friend or foe. Within the guild, the aura of the Forty One Supreme Beings that
ruled Nazarick —now reduced to Momonga alone —was enough to tell them
that the one before them was their absolute ruler. They could sense his mighty
presence from a distance and they could not have mistaken Momonga for anyone
else, even through his full plate armor. They would have seen through
Momonga’s disguise immediately, regardless of how he arrived. [V1]
Shalltear knew what that meant. Despite herself, she looked over to the distance,
but she could not sense a presence.
”Is that the effect of the Master’s ring?”
One of the rings that Ainz wore would completely conceal him from all kinds
of divination-type magic. It was normally issued to all the guardians, but it
could also erase the presence of the ruler of the Great Tomb of Nazarick.
With a sense of regret for not being able to sense her master, Shalltear turned
her head back, and found that the human with a screw loose in his head had
vanished. [V6]
So lets just consider all this Light Novel information
only. The Theocracy has someone that can identify a Player. One of the
Demon Gods had an ability nearly identical to Entoma's special ability,
the Fly Breath. The Earth God had subordinate beings, and by extension
so did the God in the Theocracy he is derived from. Nigun says his
Dominion Authority killed a Demon God and only the Six Great Gods, Eight
Greed Kings, and Dragon Lords can compare to them.
This is later proved false, as we learn from Clementine that Godkin exist and are extremely powerful.
>"But really now, it’s impossible to get those artifacts After all, that antique
show is guarded by the strongest monster of the Black Scripture, that ancient
beast with the blood of the Six Gods that’s beyond the realm of humanity"
>"A God-Kin, huh …Is that fellow really that strong? I’ve only heard about it
from you."
>"It’s stronger than the idea of strength. The relevant information has been
sealed up, which is why you don’t know If someone who knew about it was
interrogated with mind-affecting magic, it would be really bad. I’ve heard that
if the secret got out, it’d lead to total war with the surviving true Dragon Lords,
which means the Slaine Theocracy would get destroyed in the crossfire, so I
hope you’ll pretend you never heard any of it"
>The man before her did not have much in the way of combat skills, but he
possessed superhuman physical abilities. As far as she knew, said abilities
were second only to those of the two God-Kin the Black Scripture’s Extra
Seat and its First Seat (who was also the Black Scripture’s leader). Therefore,
the way he swung his weapons at his whim became an unpredictable attack
and defense, and if she was not careful, she might be killed in a single blow. [V2]
>That man …is he strong?
>Shalltear was surprised and had no levels in dedicated warrior classes, so her
assessment of her opposition’s strength told her that he was not only stronger
than the Vampire Brides she had brought along, but stronger still than Solution,
the Pleiades battle maid.
Shalltear took a closer look at the man.
The gear he wore seemed to have been designed for use by a man, which was
why she had pegged him as a male, but he seemed quite androgynous in appearance.
She did not know if he was male or female, since he resembled both a man or
a woman, yet did not look like either. He was not very tall, and seemed quite
youthful. Perhaps he was still growing, which only made it harder to tell.
His hair was black and long, almost reaching the ground, while his keen eyes
had red pupils which regarded Shalltear with caution.
The spear-wielding man rushed at her just as she realized this and was about
to make her move.
>"Get lost!"
>Shalltear batted him aside with all her might. However, when subjected to a
strike that would pulverize a weak human being, the man was simply knocked
back and did not perish on the spot. In addition, his will to fight was still intact
despite being blown away.
[V3]
Clearly Nigun didn't know about Godkin since Shalltear
pegs the Captain to be at least a Pleiades. Even the other Cardinals
don't really know how strong they really are.
>Surely the most exalted of angels would be able to triumph over Death Knights
and Soul Eaters. However, the sheer number of foes made them very uneasy.
All eyes went to Raymond.
He chuckled. Some people smiled in response to his laughter, but those smiles
froze on their faces as they heard what he said next:
>"It’s impossible. I say this as a former 3rd Seat of the Black Scripture; anyone
who expects us to face 500 of them must be an absolute madman. It would
have been bad enough even if they were only present in equal numbers. No,
if not for this, why would Thousand Mile Astrologer have locked herself up in
despair? However …"
>The nature of his smile changed.
>"It’s different for the God-kin."
>"Ohh," went the sounds of rejoicing.
>"The two of them should be able to deal with an army of Death Knights and
Soul Eaters. Of course, just in case, we still need to give them the best backup
we can."
>"So it’ll be fine with those two." [V10]
=============================
So that brings us to some problems. As we know so far,
the Thirteen Heroes defeated the Demon Gods, after they wiped out many
nations, human and non-human. There are clear issues though, namely with
two facets of this story.
1.) Platinum Dragon, a True Dragon Lord is strong as balls.
>Although this is a frequent misunderstanding, but how many in the New World
can attain victory over those in the Lv. 50s?
If it’s the case where the other party is a True Dragon Lord (Shin naru Ryuuou),
not even all members of Pleiades will be a match[/opponent]. [V5+6AT]
2.) The Theocracy not only has Dominion Authority, but also Godkin and a World Item that bypasses all mind control immunity.
Why in the hell did neither wipe out all the Demon Lords?
Here the LN didn't give us enough info. So let us posit
some of the WN info. We know someone somewhere used Super Tier magic
200 years ago. We know that Leader-kun not only was a Player but used
the Eight Greed King Guild Weapon. We also know the Demon Gods used Tier
7 magic mostly and may have been the NPCs gone rogue from the Six Great
Gods.
Why would they go rogue 300 years after the last God or Player died though?
There is something seriously fishy about the exact
details of this story, even if we declare all the WN information void.
Look for example how Evileye describes that even the myth was altered to
put humans in a good light in this region and how they formed the
Adventure's Guild supposedly to provide aid to these nations. What does
that suggest? Well, that is the Theocracy had not only the power to help
other nations but wasn't as devastated at all by the Demon Gods.
====================================
If you have followed me so far, this is where the mind trip starts.
>The Slane Theocracy is a champion of justice for human beings. In the case a
human goes to the world of Overlord, the Theocracy is the best!
One can even make a harem (though other races are excluded)!
Don’t try to brainwash collaborators! [V7AT]
Hmmm....
>"The power of the gods, Downfall of Castle and Country, will probably not
work on that fellow who can use wild magic, unlike with the Catastrophe Dragon
Lord. How about using it on the Sorcerer King?"
>Silence descended over the meeting room. It was a proposal that they were
thinking, but could not speak.
>"...It’s not a bad idea, but the fact that we don’t know what sort of power the
Sorcerer King’s subordinates possess makes me uneasy."
>"...If only it could charm without limit, there would be no problems."
>"Then, back to the topic. We are all against using Downfall of Castle and Country
on the Sorcerer King?"
>"It’s too dangerous."
>"If the Catastrophe Dragon Lord appears, we could control it and use it as a
vanguard …"
[V10]
NANI!? They'd use it on someone to use them as a meat
shield... but they didin't just make the Demon Gods fall apart one by
one... despite having Angels strong enough to oppose them and even
God-kin?
Look at all the facts again.
The Theocracy preserved their power after the Demon God
war and had a trump card that was unstoppable one-on-one and could be
used to sabotage the Demon Gods over and over or just make them kill
themselves. Yet, despite that all, it was not the Theocracy who saved
the world, despite other human nations being destroyed...
Now look at Platinum Dragon Lord. He's a True Dragon
Lord and he should have been able to wipe the Demon Gods pretty much
alone. Yet, why did he pretend to be one of the 13 Heroes in a suit of
armor?
Are you seeing it now? Why did neither of these sides
just solve the problem when they should have been able to? Even if the
lrod of the Demon Gods was a Player, unless he had a World Item, the
Theocracy could have stopped him.
Now ask yourself, why did Leader-kun, some cliche LN
protagonist who saved the world and led a multi racial army kill a
fellow Player? And it was a friend who made him feel heart broken enough
to not want to resurrect to atone for his actions.
Just go out on a limb, and look at the Demon Gods we do
know, one had YGGDRASIL type abilities like Entoma. And in the WN info,
we know they used Tier 7 magic and could have been fallen NPCs.
So lets presume these Demon Gods have that backstory.
If they really fell, why did the Theocracy not only come out mostly
unscathed, but couldn't Downfall them into submission? Did they have no
God-kun at all in that period? Did they not have enough Angels?
Why did cliche Good Guy Leader-kun kill his buddy?
The Dwarves got attacked and had Royalty and Ainz found
a Level 50 sword, their armory was strong enough to protecct against a
Level 45, and all the good items weren't even there anymore. So what's
up with that?
================================
All of that considered, the Japanese as you saw, came
upon a conjecture, that explains not only why the Theocracy didn't solve
the issue, why PDL was cautious, but also why they came out with enough
power to help others.
# The Theocracy used their NPCs to do an Operation Gehenna 200 years ago.
The Jaldaboath or Demon King was a Player they enslaved
with their World Item, as they have no reservations considering it's
use on Ainz, a pretty much confirmed Player to them.
Now look at the Cardinal meeting and the God-kin in
Volume 10 and Volume 4. Neither ever bring up the possibilty that these
mysterious beings might be Demon Gods that became unsealed. Yet Nigun
did. Of course, we knwo the Demon Gods are not that powerful, but why
didn't they consider Jaldaboath or Momon to be weaker than Players and
around their common sense of Demon Gods?
If this conjecture is true, the Player they could have
enslaved was Leader-kun's friend, the one he came with and the one he
had to kill to save the world, and the one who put him in a bad mental
state after this. So not only did they destroy nations they didn't like,
they escaped the blame, and even ended up making the Players 200 years
ago become non-issues, besides whatever Boastful Sage ended doing.
This conjecture certainly answers a lot of questions.
Why the Theocracy didn't act to protect human nations. Why PDL was
cautious as he likely recognized some Demon Gods. Why Leader-kun killed
his friend. Also why the higher ups who know everything don't think for a
moment Jaldaboath might be related to the Demon Gods or a new wave of
Demon Gods etc. And most of all, why the NPCs didn't rampage until 300
years after they lost their god. Also it attributes Super Tier magic
used 200 years ago to this Demon King and further motivates them
destroying nations to power level the Demon King rather than rule or
control nations like Jaldaboath did.
Hence, the genesis of the Enslaved Demon God theory.
The Theocracy used a Player to purge other races, destroy nations at
their whims, and they remained innocent through at all this as the blame
falls on that Player not them. Yet they benefit in the end by filling
the power vacuum. We see how their faith spread to the human nations and
how they use them to leverage their mission in Volume 10.
So if you are genre savvy or trope literate like the Japanese fans they brought up the ones that support this:
Corrupt Church- See Berserk. Hellsing. D-Gray Man. Attack on Titan. Maoyuu Maou Yuusha.
Enslaving or manipulating people summoned from another
world: How NOT to Summon a Demon Lord. Arifuretta. Konjiki no Moji
Tsukai.
===========================================
That good enough? It may sound like a conspiracy
theory, but if you look at what evidence is present, LN only or even WN
info too, it explains why those weird points happened (Theocracy coming
out mainly unscathed and PDL didn't solo the Demon Gods), why the
Theocracy didn't question their World Item would work on a Player but
not PDL, why Leader killed his friend, and that mind control line from
Maru in his author thoughts.
Make of the conjecture or theory as you will.
==========================================
Eiclair's official name: エクレア エクレール エイクレアー
エクレア Ekurea English Translation: Eclair
エクレール Ekureera English Translation: Eclair
エイクレアー Eikureaa This is the only one that is funky
but if you pronounce it as written it sounds less Engrish than the other
two.
I don't where you got EggLayer from other than an old
translation. It doesn't really make sense since he's a boy and
phonetically none of his names are close to that. reiya would be Layer
as seen in other titles like Ninja Slayer, Slayer from GG, and so on.
Egg would be エグッ or エぐっ and you can see Eiclair doesn't have that in any
of his names. The first two are beyond a doubt Eiclair, just written
differently. So if you want to presume Egglayer is the last name, it
lacks the Gu sound and doesn't even have the Japanese word for Egg
either.
>Also regarding translations, I understood it to be a lot of phonetic translations done wrong.
No comments:
Post a Comment