[Obama - Art]

[Article] - Experience, Level, and Moonrunes

Push it to the limit

Walk along the razor's edge

Open up the limit

Past the point of no return

Trying hard now 

If you hurt my friends  then you hurt my pride 

I gotta be a man,  I can't let it slide

Push it to the limit

Burning with determination to even up the score. 

Hearts on fire, strong desire

Rages deep witihin

Push it to the limit

Hearts on fire, fevers rising high

The moment of truth is here

Gettin' strong now

(I was writing this around December but never finished it. )

“Ziggy are you ok?”

No, no I’m not voice in my head. 

I’m the autistic manlet the community needs, not the one it deserves. 

IT BEGINS

So level caps. They exist. 

There’s a queer aspect of the New World that comes up a lot but no one in universe really seems to understand finely.

How does leveling up actually work for New Worlders?

“Do you really need to explain this?”

Not really, but I want to explore this because of a pet peeve of mine:

‘It’s difficult for New Worlders to be optimum since they randomly get trash job classes.’

Certainly NWers can’t just pick classes to get, but this line of reasoning has a problem:

There are plenty of NWers who we know all their classes but don’t have trash classes like Charisma (Normal) or Cook (Normal)-

“I thought Cook wasn’t required for NWers?”

Silence. Most people saying this don’t strike me as people who over analyze Overlord and Maruyama. 

Gefun gefun. 

My point is clearly these people don’t have “Charisma(Normal) ” for talking a lot or so on. Even Arche raised a noble lacks a noble class.Even Merchant born Hekkeran doesn’t possess some trader based classes just from observation like Neia did with Archery.

    If I could take two month’s leave, I’d like to go camping as a family, like we used to.

His daughter would listen with rapt attention whenever he taught her his

ranger knowledge. That was what he was aiming for. That said, he knew it

would probably not work out.

[V12]

Neia looked at her hands.

She did not like these hands.

It was not that she resented the hardening of her hands from her training. It

was simply distaste for her lack of talent.

She might have inherited her father’s keen senses, but sadly, she had not

received anything from her mother.

Neia’s mother had been a famous paladin in her time, and she had excellent

sword skills. However, as her daughter, Neia had no talent for the sword, no

matter how much she practiced. Strictly speaking, the bow techniques passed

down from her father meant that she could use bows skillfully even without

any training.

No, the fact was, Neia was fortunate just to inherit that half of her heritage.

However, the skills used by the paladins which Neia so admired could only be

used with melee weapons. For Neia, who wanted to become a paladin, being

talented with ranged weapons was a waste..

[V12]

People try to get classes but some can’t get them. Even the Normal class holders we know about have all been well known for their traits that enabled them to acquire said classes if they follow Neia’s situation. 

Normal classes seem just as hard to acquire as combat classes. Enri routinely cooked but she never got a cook class. Conversely, the closest to a trash class anyone can get seems more like Sage, but even someone extremely intelligent like Renner doesn’t have that class. Zaryusu, Raeven, and Caspond all had it. Zaryusu and Raeven both created things which matches it’s production / buffing description (twitter). We only know Caspond studied a lot. 

So why did Enri get Commander classes but Gustavo got a Charisma(NOrmal) class? 

Well we get a hint Gustav was similar to Franco, a fellow Paladin.

Paladin Franco was a good man. While he was not a very strong paladin, he

placed a lot of emphasis on getting along with others and he was well-liked as a

result. In truth, he had been assigned here because Gustav trusted him.

Remedios knew his character, and so she had given him the task of organizing

the militiamen here.

[V13]

Even beings who live for centuries don’t have many ‘garbage’ classes. Ziggy’s sorry but something’s trippy here. People use Neia as definitive proof but I think she proves something they did not notice. 

Preface: The New World Leveling Process Is…. Weird

FIrst of all, New Worlders have levels. 

Second, these classes can change under certain conditions (see Neia’s Squire/Servant and keno’s Vampire Princess which probably used to be Princess)

How New Worlder’s level up is a bit different. Enri and many villagers were all quite low level despite their ages and Jugemu comments on their low level compared to soldiers [V8/V9]. Calca even got to Tier 4 as a teenager [V12]. And keno who lived for 200 odd years only made it to Level 34 when random teenage Godkin can rival the Pleiades and Evileye did as well (it’s the same goddamn person too!) [V3/V6/V10]. 

So how does leveling up fucking work in the New World?

That’s our topic today lads (and ladettes???????????????).

It appears you gain levels based on performing at something , the activity itself must relate to others somehow if it’s a job class. You have to perform an attack correctly (it doesn’t have to land) [V1], practice to improve [V5 V7  V9 V13 V’14’], or perform an action successfully even if unaware of it [V5 V8 V13] 

This part you have no control over, since for instance if you suck at magic you may nevedr be able to gain a class for it, or you can be forced to have a certain class due to actions you were performing you didn’t want to or intend.  

Climb had no talent. He was a mere man. Through repeated practice, he had

become quite strong for a mere soldier.

[V5]

Some powerful adventurers could take on an entire army by themselves.

There were many theories as to why there were so many superhuman individuals

among the ranks of adventurers.

The most reliable explanation was that under extreme circumstances, the body

— some might say the brain — would become abnormally active and trigger

a super-recovery phenomenon, causing one’s physical parameters to increase

non-stop. Other explanations included some form of blessing, evolution

through the absorption of mana, and so on. However, what they all had

in common was that the physical, mental and magical attributes of the body

would increase rapidly.

There were higher chances of this improvement phenomenon happening when

facing powerful opposition. Given the fact that adventurers often faced powerful

monsters with varied abilities, it was very easy for them to trigger such

Phenomena.

[V6]

“Well …I’d say you could be a warrior in one, maybe two more months, Hamsukesan.”

“...That’s so far off!”

“I feel it’s already been going very fast, Hamsuke. Normal people take a year

before learning martial arts. From that point of view, you’ve grown fast enough,”

added Zenberu, the Lizardman standing beside Zaryusu.

“Is that so?”

“Indeed. You’ve fought live battles and been healed for your wounds, then enhanced

with support magic and made to fight enemies stronger than yourself

in death battles. After that hellish regime, you’ve made quite a lot of progress.”

Hamsuke’s body trembled. The two lizardmen trembled as well. They all recalled

the training they had received.

“...I pray that our next training session will not call the word death’to this

one’s mind.”

“Personally, I think you grow stronger more easily when you fight on the edge

of life and death …that’s just a personal opinion, though. Besides, it would be

a bit of a shame if our newly-wedded husband lost his life in training.”

[V7]

An ordinary villager was level 1. Maybe some of the trained members of Carne

Village were level 2. The troops accompanying the tax collectors from E-Rantel

felt like they were below level 3. This meant the soldiers he was fighting now

were very strong.

[V9]

For instance, the performance parameters of an adult Beastman were ten
times those of a similarly adult human.
Adventurers used values called difficulty ratings to quantify the strength of
monsters. If an adult human was a 3, then a Beastman would be 30.

[V9]

“...I forgot. It seems like she’s training with Gagaran-san and Tia-san.”

Evileye took up the verbal baton from Renner and continued.

“The two of them lost their lives during the battle with Jaldabaoth, the Demon

Lord who attacked the Kingdom. Of course, they were resurrected after that,

but it expended a large amount of their lifeforce. Thus, they need to place

themselves in danger, treading the edge of life and death in order to regain

their strength.”

[V10]

Paladins were sword-users. As a squire, she had trained with swords, so even

if she knew the fundamentals of archery, she had not spent much time practicing

with bows. This lack of practice made her arms cramp up and her fingers

Ache.

[V13]

“Just, just count me out …ah! I know you’re thinking about me, Satoru, and

I’m glad! And you’ve also lent me several amazing items! But what’s do you

call it? Ah, grinding, that doesn’t seem to work, does it? I mean, I don’t really

like taking a stick and beating a dying Dragon with all its limbs chopped off

over and over again... I’m not talking about your plan, but more like how you

kept ignoring its pleas for mercy, er, yeah, that’s kind of heart-wrenching – no,

it’s not like that. Of course I know you don’t like that sort of thing either, and

you’re only doing it because of me. And I don’t want to get the pretty clothes

you lent me dirty. I’m just thinking that maybe there could be another way

next time.”

[V’14’]

Since she has a powerful protector like Suzuki Satoru around, she is much lower level than Evileye

the job classes she has trained aren’t very suitable for
her. This is the path she eventually chose after her adventures with Suzuki
Satoru

[V’14’]

Keno shows training alone doesn’t allow one to reach their peak potential easily adjusting for age and Aptitude. 

Strangely many normal classes are related to societal interaction (fooling others - Actress, leading others - Noble classes, following social cues - song appraisal, performing a given role). People being born rulers and so on. 

She had seen all sorts of people in her past profession as a high-class
prostitute. Her experience told her that this was not a girl, but a boy.
[V6]

“I, I see. So that is your true nature. How shall I say this… when you were
young, I felt something was off, like I had unfastened a button. But now I fully
understand your abnormality.”

[V6]

Jircniv Rune Farlord el Nix — the peerless ruler of the Empire, and the
young man who was dreaded as the Bloody Emperor — reflected on his
flawless performance.
He was confident that he had won his counterparts over using his charisma,
that they were putty in his hands. There should have been no problems.
The nobility excelled at such wordless expressions of personality. This was
especially true for the Emperor, who had been thoroughly educated in these
ways from his youth, to the point where none would be able to see through his
facade. To his guests, he should have appeared to be a kindly young man.

[V9]

While they had no idea why, foreign spoken languages in this world were automatically
translated into a recognizable form. Specific nouns retained their
original pronunciation, but other meaningful vocabulary was translated. The
question of who had done this and how they had done it was a riddle that remained
unsolved. The logic behind the translation of song lyrics was murkier;
an unskilled singer’s words would sound like meaningless, broken nonsense.
The performer’s skill was not the only criteria either; the audience also needed
a certain degree of culture and understanding. According to Keno, being able
to accurately understand a song was a mark of social status in the upper crust,
and there were actually specialized classes for such things.
[V14]

There a [type] of class called Normal, but holders are not endowed with combat
ability [sentou ginou] at the drop of a hat, rather it’s a different type of class
which a person potentially acquires during their daily living [seikatsuru].
Skilled craftsmen are talented well, because their Normal class is high.
But Normal classes are weak classes.
For example, just because someone has Emperor Level 8, that does not mean
they possess the equivalent combat ability [sentou nouryoko] as a Level 8 Warrior.

[Blog]

Aptitude aside, there is still a mystery. How come so many people stay as Level 1 Villagers? Climb is supposed to be what anyone can become with effort, even if their level limit is low. Ziggy has his own ideas. There are Japanese theories about chosen or favored ones by the world, but I'm not talking about those today.

Now, Level Limit and Aptitude (suitability or natural affinity for classes) exist. But Ziggy believes another attribute is at play in the level up process. This mechanism is connected to the Magic of Feelings that exists in Overlord.

Quick recap, Magic of Feelings is the temporary name for the surges in power Martial Art users experience, the coagulation of hate t4at curses items, enviornment, or forms undead, or is related to killing intent. It may be a byrpoduct of ki, aura, the soul, mana etc etc. But whatever it is, this is a visible phenomonon in Overlord.

Ziggy thus suspects this Magic of Feelings influences leveling up as well. The evidence?

After all, you’re a first-rate warrior
among the Kingdom’s soldiers. I feel more motivated when I train with you.”
This was high praise, but Climb could only take it as standard courtesy.
It was not that Climb was very strong, but that the standards by which he
was judged were too low. The average Royal Army soldier was little better than
the average man, and far weaker than the Imperial Army’s professional
Knights. Virtually none of them were famed for their martial skill throughout
the surrounding nations like Gazef was. While Gazef’s direct subordinates
were excellent soldiers, they were still a notch beneath Climb.
Among the adventurers’ rankings of copper, iron, silver, gold, platinum,
mythril, orichalcum and adamantite, Climb himself would be gold-ranked at
best. He was not weak, but there were many others who were stronger than
himself.

[V5]

He was not talented in magic. No, that was not all.
No matter how hard he practiced his swordplay, how many times he bled and
blistered and callused his hands, he could not reach the level he longed for.
Low walls which a talented individual might soar over were like
insurmountable barriers to Climb.

[V5]

 There was no secret to becoming strong,” Gazef concluded. Climb
had thought that repeating the same practice over and over would eventually
make him a little stronger, but that had been rejected in an instant.

[V5]

Climb had no talent. He was a mere man. Through repeated practice, he had
become quite strong for a mere soldier. Then, should he not be content with
that?

[V5]

There were very few warriors in this city who were stronger than Climb.
Even among the men of Gazef’s hand-picked warrior band, one could count the
number of people who were stronger than Climb on one hand.

[V10]

For now, does every person who farms increase their Farmer [class] ability [ginou]?
That is a difficult question to answer when asked. Maruyama has only
vaguely thought about it, it should depend on how seriously [shinkenni] one
devotes [uchikonda] themself, will be the ruling. If you consider the amount
of life spent to reach the maximum of Level 10, how difficult it is to acquire
one level is vague, but I hope you can understand the feeling. It’s something
like that.

[Blog]

Did you notice, for someone with no Talent, Climb is repeatedly considered quite strong for his lack of talent. Even though, anyone with no talent can reach his strength right?


In the Magic of Feelings, there is an Ass Pull esque feature. Really though, in times of great emotional stress or dire times, people can trigger something in their body. I'm not memeing for once either.

Four men had lost their lives in the blink of an eye. Though Londes was still
gripped with fear, he readied his sword against the coming of the jet-black
storm, like a martyr preparing to give his life for his faith.
“Ohhhh!”
It might have been a meaningless gesture, but Londes did not intend to wait
for death. Giving voice to a battle cry, he swung his sword with all his strength
at the oncoming Death Knight.
Perhaps it was because of his circumstances, but Londes’s muscles broke
their limit and surprised him. It might have been the best blow Londes had
ever struck in his life.

[V1]

As time seemed to slow to a crawl, Climb’s instincts spoke to him. The image
of his certain death dominated his mind, like a massive wrecking ball that was
far larger than himself, approaching at incredible speeds. Even if he raised his
sword to block, that fist would surely smash it easily.
His body was frozen. It had gone stiff from tension.
—He could not escape the death before him
Climb’s resignation to his fate filled him with anger.
If he could not die for Renner, then why had he not died back then? He
should have frozen to death in the rain and shuffled off the mortal coil by
himself.
Renner’s beautiful smile appeared before him.
It was said that on the brink of death, people would see their lives flash
before their eyes like a zoetrope. The common opinion the brain was
desperately searching through its past records for a way to escape its current
predicament. However, it was somewhat laughable that the last thing Climb
would see was the smile of his beloved princess.

—Are you kidding me?!
A blaze of anger roared up within Climb’s heart.
She had picked up the life of his that had been thrown away along the
roadside. That would mean his life was no longer his own. He lived for
Renner… to grant her joy, however minuscule it might be—
Isn’t there any way I can get out of this—!
The exploding passion within him burst the chains of fear that held him
prisoner.
His hands could move.
His legs could move.
The eyes that sought only to be closed slowly opened, desperately seeking
the image of the fist which was streaking in at him.
His senses were pushed to their very limit, to the point where he could even
sense the faint movements of particles in the air.
There was a phenomenon called an “adrenaline rush”, where the brains of
people in extreme duress would release the limits on their physical bodies,
allowing for a burst of incredible power.
At the same time, the brain would secrete vast quantities of hormones and
the mind’s full capacity would be focused on survival. The brain would
compute vast quantities of information to find the best possible way to live on.
In that moment, Climb had stepped into the realm of a first-rate warrior.
Yet, the speed of Sebas’ attack was beyond even that lofty domain. Perhaps it

[V5]

Some powerful adventurers could take on an entire army by themselves.
There were many theories as to why there were so many superhuman
individuals among the ranks of adventurers.
The most reliable explanation was that under extreme circumstances, the
body — some might say the brain — would become abnormally active and
trigger a super-recovery phenomenon, causing one’s physical parameters to
increase non-stop. Other explanations included some form of blessing,
evolution through the absorption of mana, and so on. However, what they all
had in common was that the physical, mental and magical attributes of the
body would increase rapidly.
There were higher chances of this improvement phenomenon happening
when facing powerful opposition. Given the fact that adventurers often faced
powerful monsters with varied abilities, it was very easy for them to trigger
such phenomena.

[V6]

many called her a genius but she was more a silent hard worker.

[V7]

People born in wartime were stronger than those born in peace. That being
the case, warfare was an opportunity to awaken the power latent in all living
things. However, he had not heard about anyone whose power had awakened so
far.
[V11]

Those who knew of the Sorcerer King’s greatness could be considered her
comrades.
It was second nature for Neia to joyously tell them about the Sorcerer King’s
magnificence.
Gradually, people had not met the Sorcerer King began to take part as well.
They were friends of those who had been rescued by the Sorcerer King. As
word of mouth spread, more and more unrelated people came to listen to
Neia’s words.
With her visor on, Neia gushed to these people about the excellence of the
Sorcerer King during the liberation of the city and the battle with Jaldabaoth.
She would not have been able to speak so unreservedly several weeks ago.
She would have tensed up under the eyes of the audience and she would have
been at a loss for words as her mind blanked out. But after addressing crowds
over and over again, she finally came to realize that she did not need to express
her own thoughts, only paint a picture of the Sorcerer King in her heart with
her words. Neia had become an eloquent speaker.

[V13]

　2nd Rank of Magic (Adventurers of C, D Class): The realm where hard working magic casters reach. If a talentless person works hard, this is his limit.　

　3rd Rank of Magic (Adventurers of A, B Class) If one can reach here, he is celebrated as a great magic caster. This is the realm where those hardworking of average talent reach the end of their line.　

　4th Rank of Magic (Adventurers of A+): The realm where humans with talent work extremely hard can reach. Basically those who live side by side with danger, like adventurers. Top level in a country, five are sufficient.　

　5th Rank of Magic (Adventurers of Hero Class): This and further levels are Hero Class. It is the realm where even those with talent cannot reach. 

[WN]

The Magic of Feelings can almost be called the Power of Desire. Maybe even indignation? THere is definitely a link between conflict, anger, and the danger of battle at the very least. The Power of Shonen at least seems to be connected to protecting others. It's hard to say if leveling up is similarly related, but we know some strong self centered people exist so that is not likely. Instead. it may be one piece of the puzzle.

Like mentioned previously, the reason anger or hostility flaring up can have magical powers can be traced to a literal understanding of mana as it is known in Japan. That's not definitive, but there being a particle in and around everyone that can be connected to anger or hate isn't outlandish given what undead represent in Overlord. Living Monster Genesis is still a mystery though so we cannot say for certain (though monsters spawning with magical inclinations may suggest a similar mechanism at least - a connection to mana).

THere is one problem with thinking leveling up is fueled just by Mana. Two big one's in fact.

The first is, non combat classe can level up seemingly in isolation. It's slower, and as Climb illustrates, may require being MOTIVATED and lots of work. But it can happen. Normal classes do exist and they may have increased not due to being pissed off in an epic Phoenix Wright battle or anything. In fact, Neia's own Evangelist classes suggest hate or mana is not intrinsically connected to leveling up.

That's why I classify the emotional manifestation of power and being as not the Magic of Hate or the Dark Side. It's the Magic of Feelings or the Power of Desire in my naming scheme. That's because Earnestness itself can manifest power. Hate exists in every case of a Martial Art users drawing on great power. But there was also evidence to suggest it was selflessness as well. And what of Neia leveling up just by fan girling hard? Or Calca leveling up as a sheltered Princess very early in life? Or Arche leveling up in the Academy to great heights by trying hard?

War and battle lead to people leveling up,. That makes sense from an EXP perspective. So how do we explain this ability to grow stronger isolated from battle, from the easy way to level up as Adventurers know it? Do New Worlders have new ways to gain EXP?

Dear readers, I want you to question tlhough, does EXP even exist as Momonga knew it? If mana can manifest as say killing intent or undead, what then could EXP be? These people have classes yes. Hell, even Levels most likely existed before the Greed Kings, given Wild Magic items could effectively level people up temporarily (Ziggy doesn't believe in the theory levels and classes did not exist prior to Greed Kings).

If YGGDRASIL's rules were applied retroactively, why do Level Caps even exist? Why do Normal classes exist? Why isn't cooking following YGGDRASIL's rules? You get the idea. That line of thinking has soem flaws  it needs to reconcile before I consider it's merits.


経験値 - EXP
Read literally it's 'experienced or undergo'  'trials or signs' 'value'.

Funfact, the middle kanji almost sounds like Tamashii or soul. It usually means trial or test though. It'd be funny if it's a lisp thing though.

Just for fun Super Tier magic can also be read 'Tier Surpassing Magic'. Or magic beyond tiers. Super is just the usualy prefix reading. It can also mean transcendental.

From a literal perspective, if you examine what EXP may have mutated into in the world of Overlord, the New World that manifests changes based on written meaning (in theory), it makes sense how EXP may not relate to not just experience but actual requiring effort. If it's not a TRIAL, that is you dont' push yourself, can it really be something that counts as an 'experienced trial'?

Food for thought.

I still think it's fairly possible the New World way to level up is just a reference to games where you level up by doing things rather than by just killing things. That is Skill Based GAmes to some extent. I do think that using the Kotodama Hypothesis, that is the literal meaning of the kanji though, you can come to an equally plausible and maybe more validated theory.

>The realm where humans with talent work extremely hard can reach.

>it should depend on how seriously [shinkenni] one devotes [uchikonda] themself

 No matter what turns out true (evne a combination theory), there is some selective process at work beyond just Aptitude or Level Caps. Ziggy argues it's either due to whatever Magic of Feelings is influencing Overlord, a literal mutation of EXP, or it's earnestness.