[Repost] Dragonlord Wanking Hur Hur Herp A Derp

btw, how literally do you take the line about Ainz specifically being ECDL's nemesis? seen some argument about how TGOALID to deal with the zombies, the dark young + summons, and the guild staff are requisites for victory and that touch me or tabula with a WCI would lose to ECDL(edited)

June 30, 2021

 

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The way Nemesis are presented (in Maruyama's head) is basically an extremely unbalanced or unfair match up. It's not unwinnable by any stretch, but special cases exist which are unwinnable (eg Skeletal Dragons vs most NW casters, Incorporeal undead vs certain classes with no magic items, etc). The way Ziggy has always seen it, ECDL's nemesis is Ainz because as an undead, many possible options he could use against living players are not possible (most of his Tier magic is redudant against Ainz). Now the Elder Coffin Combi Zombie armor is also less of a deterrent because undead Players can actually chip away at it theoretically. Furthermore, Ainz has the ultimate answer or HARD COUNTER to the Combi Zombie: TGOALID and Super Tier magic. The whole point of that armor was to effectively beat Players via attrition and serve as meat shields. It helps for action economy (Players need to waste time dealing with it), diminishes resources (any mage Players are going to be wasting scrolls or mana to chip away at it), and most importantly prevent Cure Elim from tanking damage. That doesn't apply to Ainz. He basically took it out with probably as little expenditure as you can hope for. That ruins the entire point of it's existence. At that point, Cure Elim is now fighting solo - and remember he's wasted levels in his build to expoit the combi zombi. So he's now at a disadvantage without it. If Cure Elim was a dedicated solo chad dragonlord, he would have better oddds because at least his class levels might actually be of use in that situation. At that point, ANY build is better because Ainz is undead and Cure Elim has no more zombies to manipulate. Unlike Tier Necromancy, Wild Necromancy is far more limited it seems.

 Who can beat Cure Elim depends on who you talk to. Most people just say he's a jobber and he's trash etc etc. That sort of contradicts Ainz's and Maruyama's evaluations of him. But I digress. World class item's alone won't guarantee victory. They'll save you from getting cheesed. But they won't help ou win unless they have some way to help you deal with the numerical disadvantage. this is predicated on Cure Elim using his combi zombi less retardedly. Most people belittle it since "low level zombies trash reeeeee". There's some truth to that, but there are things you can do with them to fuck people up if used correctly. Any casters, rangers, or crafters will have a very bad time dealing with Cure Elim. Warriors are the ones that can conceivably deal with the combi zombie hordes. The issue is most people just assume that's all Cure Elim would do - send zombies and that's it. That's overly prejudiced however. Picture this: Cure Elim comes running at Cocytus inside his zombie armor. Most people say "Cocytus can just slash all the zombies" but can Cocytus kill all the zombies mid tackle within a few seconds? The answer is no. And do you know what happens? The high level draogn in those zombies pulled a Zaryusu and Rororo - he closed the distance. Sure gear and levels are a big deal, but the level disparity isn't enough to negate the size and racial advantages. And you need to remember Cure Elim is both undead and has several apendages. You know what that means? Each limb has separate thresholds ot tank damage for grappling. Wounds and pain can't stop the grapple fast enough. That's why Ainz feared that possibility as well. In the strangle hold for life, the dragons' going to probably beat you in the HP department. If you can't overpower him, you're basically a mouse held down by a giant cat nibbling on you until you die. Imagine pokemon using constrict or Wrap and then just dealing slow damage over time. That's one strategy. But people will just ignore Ainz -

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“You really are strong.”
He had to admit that even the phrase “mighty foe” was not enough to describe 
it. One could say it was an extremely tough opponent.
The Brightness Dragon Lord was strong too, but Cure Elim was stronger still, 

After sweeping away these nuisances, it would take care of that enemy. When 
the time came, Cure Elim would use that magic on its claws and fangs, and finish 
things in close combat to prevent him from fleeing. It would seize with its claws 
and pin it to the ground, then crunch him to pieces with its fangs.

Ahhh, what an idiot.
Suzuki Satoru mocked Cure Elim’s stupidity.
In truth, Cure Elim could have won.
Due to the difference in their sizes, it could have trampled Suzuki Satoru flat. 
However, its carelessness, its ignorance, and most importantly, its arrogance 
had all contributed to its defeat.

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>Would casters not be able to wipe out the zombies with multiple nuclear blasts or a fallen down? The zombies didn't seem that strong, most under lvl 30. 

Not all casters will have the classes or spells to employ this. But some will. The main problem is most meta builds would concentrate on eitther the single target spells or some niche. Dealing with crowds isn't Things to consider about most area of effect spells are many have 'line of sight' and 'early detonation' caveats. You can't just launch fireballs into the combi zombie for instance and maximize the area of effect. The reason is the wall of bodies counts as cover so to speak. So you are not allowed to trigger targeting spells to go off inside the crowd. You need to see exactly the target and here needs to be nothing in the way.

“Then how about making a shield and advancing with it held before us?”
“Making a shield would take too long.”
“How about tearing one of the houses down and using it as a shield?”
Zenberu smiled bitterly as he realized the futility of the words he had just
spoken. The enemy attacked with explosive fireballs. Even if it was blocked, the
searing temperatures would still scorch them from the side. There was no time
now to make a full-body shield which could withstand high temperatures.

[V4] Next you need to factor in the combi zombie size, it's 150 meters or about 500 feet long. Using the early detonation caveats, every area of effect spell you have will only go half it's diameter into the combi zombie (the center or detonation point is always on the exterior point). You may be able to chip away at it, but the area of effect will not be as optimized as you the term area of effect implies. All that said, how using Fallen Down and Nuclear Blasts works out will depend on it's actual area of effect.We know some of the higher end spells can measure in the 100 meter range and be enhanced to 200. Given our NPCs as reference, most people are not going to be that specialized in area of effects. But that would deal with the Combi Zombi if triggered correctl

 

The danger lies in getting the trigger off before the distance is closed. Basically even if you get the spell off, as a magic caster, that still may leave you in range of a pounce or charge putting you back in the danger of grappling. The tough part is the exact workings of Cure Elim's defensive spell as well. We don't kno wif the damage of these area spells (which tend to be lower than single target ones) will be strong enough to stun him. So say Nuclear Blast has a 200-250 meter kill zone. That means you may be able to target those spells centered at the Combi Zombie and deal with maybe half the zombies? more or less given the variable nature of it's volume. Given

A tornado 100 meters wide and 200 meters tall appeared. A black hurricane 
that churned up the land separated the two of them.
Cure Elim began to move.
His vision was blocked by the tornado, and he could not see Cure Elim. 
However, Suzuki Satoru’s undead-sensing ability picked up a massive undead 
reaction behind the tornado.
Before Cure Elim thought to break through the tornado — Suzuki Satoru 
charged in first.
He’s not wary or trying to evade… which side is he on?
The shapes swimming through the wildly-blowing winds — as though they 
were swimming through the ocean — were six-meter-long sharks, which were 
gnawing at the Zombies and chewing them to bits. However, it was insignificant compared to Cure Elim’s massive body. Just entering the tornado had gotten rid 
of a few Zombies which made up its exterior, but that was all. There were 
countless Zombies on the surface of Cure’s body alone. Given the massive size 
difference between both parties, Cure Elim planned to easily break through the 
tornado at the cost of a small number of Zombies.
The gigantic Cure Elim would probably regard this tornado spell as 
meaningless resistance. One could say that was why he had chosen the spell, but 
there was one thing he wanted to verify

[4:32 PM] Ziggy = オーバーヘッポコで『NINE』: 

There does seem to be more to the overall size and composition of the Combi Zombie. Whatever that may be given Cure Elim's behavior toward one of the wider spells of tier magic. It wasn't triggered point blank, but the fact remains he was still going to charge it.

 

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