The conclusion to the series of Overthinking Mechanics of the New World.
When we talk about the new things of this New World, there is something that has lingered since the beginning but is less alien to us readers. The reason is that it appears like something we understand, or at least Ainz does.
And that something is:
Rituals.
To sum up, Rituals or Ceremonies are ways which New Worlder mages who use Tier Magic can cast spells cooperatively.
Seems pretty innocent in fact.
Hmm?
Why are you reading this with suspicion? D-Do you think I'm THAT paranoid and nuts?
...
WELL YOU'RE RIGHT!
Time to get W O K E lads. Get the tin-foil sombreros out and strap yourself in, we going in deep and obscure.
Let's establish the rules of Ritual casting though.
A.) A person or thing is required in the center of the ritual. [V2, V10, V12, WN]
B.) The more Divine casters the faster the time it is to cast. [V4]
C.) An ability to transfer power is needed [WN, V4? ]
D.) At the Lizardmen's level they could only use a ritual to cast one tier above? [V4]
E.) Allows Meta Magic
F.) Slaine's rituals are limited to rituals of two tiers above
Now in the WN, Maruyama says that Slaine can cast Tier 8. They do this by using the Crown of Wisdom, a ritual, and the Miko Hime. However, he then says that with a ritual that they can only cast two Tier's above.
The fact Clementine says a Tier 7 spell, the fact Dominon is a Tier 7 summon, and that all make people think Maruyama made a typo.
However, did you know, Maruyama frequently fixed typos in the WN?
Pay attention to how he words it: with the RITUAL you can improve the Tier by 2. However, that was not the only condition he gave for what was possible to reach Tier 8. It was not only rituals but a Miko who can improve it despite only being able to use Tier 5.
Maruyama is not wrong. That's because Slaine is doing this:
Miko Hime: Tier 5 user
Ritual: Improve Tier of a spell by 2
Over Magic: Improve Tier of user's spell by 1
Miko Hime + Over Magic = Tier 6without a ritual.
Miko Hime + Over Magic + Ritual = Tier 8
Ziggy believes Nigun is not right. He was unaware. Just like he doesn't seem to know of Godkin or beings close to Ainz besides Demon Gods (True Dragon Lords, Laval Angler, etc etc). Ziggy thinks either Maruyama removed Over Magic from Slaine or Nigun was wrong.
Since Nigun is shown to be untrustworthy of some secrets that may be more likely. Especially since Maruyama explicitly write the Miko Hime using Over Magic after explaining what it did in the Lizardman arc.
This tangent is to illustrate that rituals allow and STACK with meta magic. (keep this in mind for later)
If we use the given data, we can attempt to deduce a pattern of why Slaine can go up two tiers and the Lizardmen one.
The Lizardmen needed the ritual to reach Tier 4 Control Cloud. As we see their chiefs tend to be Tier 3 or Platinum in level.
Slaien has a Tier 5 user and can only go up 2. Over Magic let's them cheese up an additional Tier.
Assuming there is a pattern, Ziggy thinks one possible explanation for this is that:
Slaine Tier 5 user: 5/2 = 2.5. Round Down = 2 additional Tiers
If someone used Over Magic:
*It's unknown if ritual casting can even be used below Tier 3 casters.
So limiting ourselves to the highest known New World caster Tier, this may be one way to look at ritual casting's limits. Its purely hypothetical though. It does look nice with the limits of the New World being able to just barely squeak by to Tier 10.
Given what we know Ziggy just thought this was interesting...
But back on track, it is very curious how the New World has this method to hit above their Tier limit. But why? It doesn't seem to have existed in YGGDRASIL most likley since it takes so much time apparently.
Over Magic is tangentially related too.
So let' slook at that first.
Meta Magic, in general uses more MP to increase a spells' attributes. Widen increases range. Penetrate let's one pierce defense better. Maximize removes RNG from a spell's damage potential.
In this view, what is Over Magic doing?
Well it's effectively altering the very Tier of the spell to some extent. As it is described, Over Magic is a modifier one uses for spells outside their own limited Tier casting. In a way, Over Magic can be thought of two ways:
1.) A meta magic that lowers the Tier requirement of a spell but increases the mana consumption
2.) Or a twisting of the already existing magical property of variable damage. For example, Fluder's Fireball is stronger than Deibanock's. This has to do with with SUBTLE mechanic. For now think of it as strong people can use weaker spells and make them stronger.
So isn't Sharyusu a Weak person who is using a stronger spell by making it weaker?
W O K E
Ziggy favors 2.) because of this negative nature of an already canon facet of the spell casting.
Then why can only Divine casters supposedly use Rituals and how is it connected to this Over Magic principle?
Well this is purely hypothetical, but consider Evileye and her supposedly New WOrld only spell, Translocate Damage.
What that did was convert damage into mana depletion. In other words, even Arcane casters can link their HP and MP somehow.
But then, what about Divine casters and Over Magic or rituals? Fluder can't participate in rituals even though he should be able to draw upon this type of spell too in theory if he knew about it or could learn it.
The answer most likely lies in the MP transfer ability unique to Divine casters.
If Arcane casters can access their MP in place of HP, the converse is possible as well no? Certainly the Mikohime was bleeding from the ritual and in Calca's case it was said she would strain herself by not doing the ritual the proper way.
This may be linked to mana exhaustion. Certainly it shows a physical link between mana use and well being or consciousness. Could that be the strain being described?
One theory why Rituals can exist is that due to this self-harming nature, with friendly fire being changed, this ability unlocked from exploiting the idea self-harm or ally harm should not have been possible in YGGDRASIL. This may link to Translocation Damage.
Well...
If one can convert damage to HP to depletion of MP...
isn't the idea that one can offset one for the other?
Ainz proves that YGGDRASIL already allowed one to bolster stats with mana and mana recovery using spells with PErfect Warrior. Isn't HP just another stat?
If you can bolster stats with mana, why is the converse not possible? Basically bolstering mana with stats.
Divine casters, by nature are able to harness duality. Fire and Ice. Positive and Negative energy. Good and Evil. It is not wrong to say they are mages who are skilled at manipulating polarity of magical forces.
The queerness of this all though is that there is one big mystery about Divine casting outside rituals. What is that power source they feel?
This likely relates to how Divine casters often have abilites like Turn Undead. In addition it may relate to how Divine and Arcane casters learn spells slightly differently. well at least in TRPG. Take for instance:
Or how Calca and Lakyus both learned high tiers of Divine magic very early in life (their teens). Yet even Fluder and his disciples were on average far older than them before reaching their respective tiers. And Fluder's disciples had the benefit of Fluder's findings to speed up their development. Even Arche only progressed so far in a short time due to Fluder. But with Ninya's Talent we see that speeding up her growth still took time for her to reach her Tier 2. In the WN we learn that even with study in the magical academy typically people only advance one Tier higher, with most of the faculty at Tier 2 or Tier 3.
In terms of Soft Stats (read the article on that if you haven't already) the two are very similar but differ in HOW they get power. It's why Remedios, as dumb as bricks as she was could still be strong. That is Arcane is Intelligence, Divine is Wisdom or feelings or instinct or etc.
For example, Druids are said to gain both spells and their weird magical abilites from nature or nature gods. They don't need to UNDERSTAND how to cause their magic, they gain it through prayer, communion, belief, instinct or so on. Arcane casters though have to understand the world and it's magical nature or magical forces of nature.
TlDr:
Divine - Access the Divine 'essence' of nature or the world or god to shape that 'essence' based on their beliefs. in Ainz's example, this is one way to interpet this fact, that Divine casters are really just drawing from a cloud of SOMETHING that is neither good or bad, aware or unaware, it's just there.
Arcane - Arcane casters access magical 'essence' by understanding it, learning it, studying it, or feeling it like on a hunch.
For a metaphor, Divine casters can just build a bridge with enough sticks and feelign sure it will be safe to cross. Arcane casters have to go through all the physics and statics of math (the laws of nature) to ensure their bridge doesn't collapse. At the end of the day both will cross the bridge, but it would take the Arcane caster longer but their bridge would likely be safer and sturdier.
That illustrates how in terms of pure potential Arcane spells can do more though in meta Divine casters tend to be better (see Shalltear).
Spiritual Casters are a slightly different animal being from a different series of games altogether. But the fact Spiritual spells can identify Talents does suggest some stuff. I'll leave that for you to ponder though!
Now onto Other casters. Namely, Paladins. They are very similar to Divine casters, in fact they are Divine casters in some games. But the difference in Overlord is they use more modern views on them. That is, they access the divine nature of this world through belief as well. But their belief is not in something as the source of life or nature. Rather, their belief is fueled by a sense of righteousness or justice. IE they believe in something as justice so much it is a fanaticism slightly different from religion.
The easiest example is that Paladins are patriots, Divine casters are religous people. Go read the article on this if you want a broader look on the differences between Divine and Karmatic power.
Ziggy believes Other spell casters are those that don't fit into the other 3 categories. Which is a tautology but still. It's HOW they interact with Arcane and Divine are loosely inspired by the science vs religion world view of Europe and all the fears of what going from one to the other brought (Frankenstein for example is a commentary on this of sorts, as is the Hunch Back of Notre Dame in regards to the understanding literacy brought and the change in world view it brings; you feel or see something of such grandeur it makes you feel a certain way for example Notre Dame cathedral was a beautiful structure but often we modern people don't understand that to the uneducated and illiterate that these large displays of objects like Albedo says show off power and greatness for people. It's the loss of this feeling that is behind that book and something modern people tend to only feel in the outdoors now adays since we make skyscrapers like breakfast).
Spiritual casters though, based on their Eastern origin in both inspiration and TRPG games they came from likely stem from the Eastern view on spirituality. Think something like Chinese fold remedies, Shinto practices, and so on. There was a certain degree of spirituality AND science to their beliefs. Just look at pressure points, their system of divination, the complicated rules they had for warding, etc. In terms of spells too, they do fall inbetween the other two systems, having healing spells and many utility based spells too. At least in so far as we see.
Ninya does tell us that one must connect to the world to cast magic. They just do it differently between each system of magic.
Thus, what Ainz surmises, that people are just tapping into a cloud of energy may not be wrong. Instead of Gods, Maruyama decided to cut them out and instead standardized the source of magic but not the way to access it. Or so Ziggy believes.
Breaking down magic this way let's Ziggy explain better the thing Maru ripped off!
First, remember Nameless Spellbook? It instantly records magical spells no, evne those that are newly created?
Well this rips off something very vague not from TRPG to some extent but Maru used it to explain a mechanic in TRPG.
What this mechanic is, well it's why Over Magic and rituals work! Effectively, one can cheat and temporarily gain access to spells they don't know! Now what does that remind us of?
Ding ding ding.
And do you know that only Divine castesr can use this ability in the game Maru took it from? That isn't because of MP transfer though. MP transfer didnt' exist in the game. IT has to do with something greater. Ainz's thoughts are closer to what this is than just sharing MP, that is drawing upon something that people call God but is something more mysterious than that.
So both Sharyusu and the Miko Hime used Over Magic. The Miko Hime however showed us she took damage no? Or at least she was bleeding compared to what Krusch felt through mana exhaustion. Ziggy believes teh blow back from Over Magic aloen is not enough to cause that harm since it only uses lots of mana as we are told. Instead, the combination of a ritual and Over magic may be the cause.
You see, ritual casting limited only to Divine casters has two different versions actually, but they appear similar. One is communal casting. The other is magic concentration. And we actually see both in Overlord.
"NANI!?!??!?!", you might say.
Others might ask "There's a difference?"
Well here's the genius of Slaine. They seem to have combined both methods. Crazy right? But we actually know that the other methods exist separately. This is one of those subtle things Maru likes to set up that seem similar but are different!
Let's break them down:
Communal Casting: (Lizardmen)
A group of Divine casters work together to cast a spell. This increases the castable Tier by 1.
Magic Concentration (Calca's Crown):
A ritual is performed using a magical keystone or focus if you will. A group of divine casters do not create a shared spell but instead funnel their magical power into an item or focal point.
These are really very similar in fact. So why does Ziggy think Slaine is genius?
They combined these two to squeeze out as much as possible from their given spell casting tier and to do what we see: they can cast Tier 8 spells. This is why in Volume 2, Khajiit only used a Tier 7 spell. Nfirea, being an Arcane caster with the crown could only use Tier 7 magic, which doesn't match the limitations of Slaine or the Lizardmen. How come the Lizardmen can only go one Tier above while he can use several tiers higher with far less help from Zuranon?
The reason is that Nfirea's case was not the Lizardman one or Slaine. In fact, it's Calca's case.
What Nfirea was as Clementine said, a magical item that allows the use of high tier spells. It's the CROWN which casts the spell, not Nfirea.
...
Do you see, stick with Ziggy and you'll understand it!
Let Ziggy elaborate:
The Lizardman way basically is what Over magic is. You channel power and enable one person to cast a spell beyond their limits. This method mainly focuses on shared casting and MP sharing to some extent.
The Calca or Nfirea way which is how the Crowns of Wisdom work, is they already contain a high level spell. The ceremony in this case unlocks that spell for use but Divine casters are not needed at all in this case since Zuranon or at least Khajiit's group primarily seem to know Arcane spells with little Divine. There's a hidden element as to why it was possible for Zuranon to get Tier 7 Undeath Army to work, but... let's reel in the mind explosions for now.
All you need to know is that there is a Divine caster version and the item/weird version which needs something special Ziggy is cockteasing you about.
Do you understand why Slaine is genius?
They got a Tier 5 caster, strapped an item on her to make her into a magical item but she should theoretically also count for the divine caster communal ritual casting buff! Those meta gaming assholes!
Well this is the alternative theory as to why Slaien can go two Tiers up but others cannot. Both theories could be true, but Ziggy favors this one simply because it addresses why Nfirea could use Tier 7 magic but the Lizardmen could only go one Tier up.
To Ziggy's knowledge, this doesn't come from a game Maruyama played. Instead, he seems to have made his own rules. Any Tier spell can be used if sealed in an item or focus. How this gets sealed is a different story... just look at Calca and the Crowns of Wisdom. As Ainz said the Crown of Wisdom didn't exist in YGGDRASIL so how did it come to form? The Six Great Gods shouldn't have formed it at least.... X files theme plays It's crazier than you might think, but enough cock teasing!
The Slaine method which seems to combine these methods has the advantages of both. The item method allows the use of a high tier spell, but since the person is an item, by normal YGGDRASIL rules that spell cannot be enhanced. The Lizardman way, while limited by the spell casting ability of user can be enhanced by the group or meta magic. Slaine has a magic item person, so theoretically they fall under both categories! Since they select Miko Hime's who are Tier 5 users (WN), they can abuse the item rule of turning the person into a focus. But also the Divine caster rule and enhance the ritual further. IE if the Lizardmen continue to perfect their ritual, they may eventaully discover the 2 Tier limit that Slaine has. However,
At least, that is how it appears to Ziggy. Let's break it down:
In this way both types of ritual are linked to Divine casters. Communal magic requires the mana transfer and communal casting ability while the item ritual method requires that hidden ingredient that only Necromancers can also tap into.
Dang, that took a while to write up. I'm curious how Maruyama will reveal the behind the scenes of rituals. Will it really be level based or more like how the game was he copied the idea from? Hopefully this made you pay attention more to this very minor detail because it might be important later... or not. The Theocracy will probably get wiped out offscreen...
...
Hm? 'I didn't explain the god thing'?
Well I'll be vague here. You should think more on these things yourself. But, think about why rituals work. Now think about what a god is. Over magic works because....
This sounds cryptic but you have to understand what implications happen if you put all these different ideas in a blender. That's why Overlord is so intereresting. Maruyama takes ideas and tropes to their natural extension. If you think about why Neia can awaken as a Paladin or why Over magic lets people use magic they do not know but it seems limited to Divine casters... maybe that's a big enough hint? If you think about the converse of these mechanics you might also start to understand why-
(TO BE CONTINUED... whenever Ziggy feels like it which might be tomorrow. Or never. Or ...)
Notes:
"...We ought to use fire. Pour on the oil and ignite it. May I ask you to bless it, Calca-sama?" "Nee-sama, are we going to conduct the ritual of Holy Fire? Doing so to harm an opponent …is that really what a paladin ought to be doing?" "That’s fine, if Remedios thinks that’s the best way, then we’ll go with it. No, we should do it. Since he’s a demon, there’s no reason he won’t be hurt." Many demons were resistant to fire, but the Holy Fire was of the holy element, and fire resistance was only half as effective against it. "Then, Calca-sama, the preparations for the ritual—" "We don’t have time for that. Please use the simplified version." Calca looked straight ahead as she said that, and from the corner of Remedios’s eye, she saw her little sister wondering if she should go "But that—" Simplifying the Holy Fire ritual spell would place a great deal of strain on the user’s body. This was not something which she, as one of Calca’s subordinates charged with keeping her safe, ought to recommend. However, it would be even worse if they gave Jaldabaoth time. "If you think this is the best way, then we’ll do it. However, if I perform it by myself, I won’t be able to help you after that. Please keep that in mind …Then, can you light the fire right away?"
[V12]
When we talk about the new things of this New World, there is something that has lingered since the beginning but is less alien to us readers. The reason is that it appears like something we understand, or at least Ainz does.
And that something is:
Rituals.
To sum up, Rituals or Ceremonies are ways which New Worlder mages who use Tier Magic can cast spells cooperatively.
Seems pretty innocent in fact.
Hmm?
Why are you reading this with suspicion? D-Do you think I'm THAT paranoid and nuts?
...
WELL YOU'RE RIGHT!
Time to get W O K E lads. Get the tin-foil sombreros out and strap yourself in, we going in deep and obscure.
Let's establish the rules of Ritual casting though.
A.) A person or thing is required in the center of the ritual. [V2, V10, V12, WN]
B.) The more Divine casters the faster the time it is to cast. [V4]
C.) An ability to transfer power is needed [WN, V4? ]
D.) At the Lizardmen's level they could only use a ritual to cast one tier above? [V4]
E.) Allows Meta Magic
F.) Slaine's rituals are limited to rituals of two tiers above
Now in the WN, Maruyama says that Slaine can cast Tier 8. They do this by using the Crown of Wisdom, a ritual, and the Miko Hime. However, he then says that with a ritual that they can only cast two Tier's above.
The fact Clementine says a Tier 7 spell, the fact Dominon is a Tier 7 summon, and that all make people think Maruyama made a typo.
However, did you know, Maruyama frequently fixed typos in the WN?
Pay attention to how he words it: with the RITUAL you can improve the Tier by 2. However, that was not the only condition he gave for what was possible to reach Tier 8. It was not only rituals but a Miko who can improve it despite only being able to use Tier 5.
Maruyama is not wrong. That's because Slaine is doing this:
Miko Hime: Tier 5 user
Ritual: Improve Tier of a spell by 2
Over Magic: Improve Tier of user's spell by 1
Miko Hime + Over Magic = Tier 6without a ritual.
Miko Hime + Over Magic + Ritual = Tier 8
Ziggy believes Nigun is not right. He was unaware. Just like he doesn't seem to know of Godkin or beings close to Ainz besides Demon Gods (True Dragon Lords, Laval Angler, etc etc). Ziggy thinks either Maruyama removed Over Magic from Slaine or Nigun was wrong.
Since Nigun is shown to be untrustworthy of some secrets that may be more likely. Especially since Maruyama explicitly write the Miko Hime using Over Magic after explaining what it did in the Lizardman arc.
This tangent is to illustrate that rituals allow and STACK with meta magic. (keep this in mind for later)
If we use the given data, we can attempt to deduce a pattern of why Slaine can go up two tiers and the Lizardmen one.
The Lizardmen needed the ritual to reach Tier 4 Control Cloud. As we see their chiefs tend to be Tier 3 or Platinum in level.
Slaien has a Tier 5 user and can only go up 2. Over Magic let's them cheese up an additional Tier.
Assuming there is a pattern, Ziggy thinks one possible explanation for this is that:
Rituals Can Only Increase a spell's Tier based on Caster's Usable Tier / 2 Rounded Down.
Lizardmen Tier 3 user: 3/2=1.5. Round Down = 1 additional TierSlaine Tier 5 user: 5/2 = 2.5. Round Down = 2 additional Tiers
| Caster Tier | Ritual Tier Enhancement Possible |
|---|---|
| 1 | ??? |
| 2 | ??? |
| 3 | 1 |
| 4 | 2? |
| 5 | 2 |
| 6 | 3? |
| Caster Tier | Ritual and Over Magic Tier Enhancement |
|---|---|
| 1 | ??? |
| 2 | ??? |
| 3 | 2 |
| 4 | 3? |
| 5 | 3 |
| 6 | 4? |
So limiting ourselves to the highest known New World caster Tier, this may be one way to look at ritual casting's limits. Its purely hypothetical though. It does look nice with the limits of the New World being able to just barely squeak by to Tier 10.
Given what we know Ziggy just thought this was interesting...
But back on track, it is very curious how the New World has this method to hit above their Tier limit. But why? It doesn't seem to have existed in YGGDRASIL most likley since it takes so much time apparently.
Over Magic is tangentially related too.
So let' slook at that first.
Meta Magic, in general uses more MP to increase a spells' attributes. Widen increases range. Penetrate let's one pierce defense better. Maximize removes RNG from a spell's damage potential.
In this view, what is Over Magic doing?
Well it's effectively altering the very Tier of the spell to some extent. As it is described, Over Magic is a modifier one uses for spells outside their own limited Tier casting. In a way, Over Magic can be thought of two ways:
1.) A meta magic that lowers the Tier requirement of a spell but increases the mana consumption
2.) Or a twisting of the already existing magical property of variable damage. For example, Fluder's Fireball is stronger than Deibanock's. This has to do with with SUBTLE mechanic. For now think of it as strong people can use weaker spells and make them stronger.
So isn't Sharyusu a Weak person who is using a stronger spell by making it weaker?
W O K E
Ziggy favors 2.) because of this negative nature of an already canon facet of the spell casting.
Then why can only Divine casters supposedly use Rituals and how is it connected to this Over Magic principle?
Well this is purely hypothetical, but consider Evileye and her supposedly New WOrld only spell, Translocate Damage.
What that did was convert damage into mana depletion. In other words, even Arcane casters can link their HP and MP somehow.
But then, what about Divine casters and Over Magic or rituals? Fluder can't participate in rituals even though he should be able to draw upon this type of spell too in theory if he knew about it or could learn it.
The answer most likely lies in the MP transfer ability unique to Divine casters.
If Arcane casters can access their MP in place of HP, the converse is possible as well no? Certainly the Mikohime was bleeding from the ritual and in Calca's case it was said she would strain herself by not doing the ritual the proper way.
This may be linked to mana exhaustion. Certainly it shows a physical link between mana use and well being or consciousness. Could that be the strain being described?
One theory why Rituals can exist is that due to this self-harming nature, with friendly fire being changed, this ability unlocked from exploiting the idea self-harm or ally harm should not have been possible in YGGDRASIL. This may link to Translocation Damage.
Well...
If one can convert damage to HP to depletion of MP...
isn't the idea that one can offset one for the other?
Ainz proves that YGGDRASIL already allowed one to bolster stats with mana and mana recovery using spells with PErfect Warrior. Isn't HP just another stat?
If you can bolster stats with mana, why is the converse not possible? Basically bolstering mana with stats.
Divine casters, by nature are able to harness duality. Fire and Ice. Positive and Negative energy. Good and Evil. It is not wrong to say they are mages who are skilled at manipulating polarity of magical forces.
The queerness of this all though is that there is one big mystery about Divine casting outside rituals. What is that power source they feel?
"Well, do listen. That’s just my theory. But if that were the case, if you do borrow the power of the gods to work your magic, could dead people provide it to you? Or rather, what are the gods? Do they even exist? Are you really using the power of the gods?" "…What are you trying to say?" "…Have you ever seen the gods?" "The gods are always by my side!" "That is to say, you’ve never actually seen them directly, then?" "No! When we use our spells, we feel the presence of a mighty being. That is our god!" "…And who declared that that presence to be a god? The god himself? Or someone else drawing on that power?" Roberdyck recalled the theological debates he had taken part in. There was no clear answer to Ainz’s questions. Until today, the priests still debated hotly over whether that was the proof of the gods’existence. Just as Roberdyck was about to speak, Ainz interrupted him. "…Well, supposing these super-dimensional beings—which we shall generously term gods for our purposes—do exist, I wonder if that means they were originally colorless entities. Simply put, they are masses of power. Because drawing on their power dyes them in a different color and changes the thing …well, they do exist in a world with magical laws, I just wanted someone to chat with someone about this. It wouldn’t be funny if there really were gods."[V7]
This likely relates to how Divine casters often have abilites like Turn Undead. In addition it may relate to how Divine and Arcane casters learn spells slightly differently. well at least in TRPG. Take for instance:
Londes Di Gelanpo had probably cursed his gods more times in the past ten seconds than he had in the rest of his life. If the gods really did exist, then they should defeat that evil being right now. Londes was a faithful man —why had the gods abandoned him? The gods did not exist. In the past, he had looked down on those people who did not believe in the gods as fools. After all, if the gods did not exist, how could the priests work their magic? And now, he realised that he was the foolish one.[V1]
Or how Calca and Lakyus both learned high tiers of Divine magic very early in life (their teens). Yet even Fluder and his disciples were on average far older than them before reaching their respective tiers. And Fluder's disciples had the benefit of Fluder's findings to speed up their development. Even Arche only progressed so far in a short time due to Fluder. But with Ninya's Talent we see that speeding up her growth still took time for her to reach her Tier 2. In the WN we learn that even with study in the magical academy typically people only advance one Tier higher, with most of the faculty at Tier 2 or Tier 3.
In terms of Soft Stats (read the article on that if you haven't already) the two are very similar but differ in HOW they get power. It's why Remedios, as dumb as bricks as she was could still be strong. That is Arcane is Intelligence, Divine is Wisdom or feelings or instinct or etc.
For example, Druids are said to gain both spells and their weird magical abilites from nature or nature gods. They don't need to UNDERSTAND how to cause their magic, they gain it through prayer, communion, belief, instinct or so on. Arcane casters though have to understand the world and it's magical nature or magical forces of nature.
TlDr:
Divine - Access the Divine 'essence' of nature or the world or god to shape that 'essence' based on their beliefs. in Ainz's example, this is one way to interpet this fact, that Divine casters are really just drawing from a cloud of SOMETHING that is neither good or bad, aware or unaware, it's just there.
Arcane - Arcane casters access magical 'essence' by understanding it, learning it, studying it, or feeling it like on a hunch.
For a metaphor, Divine casters can just build a bridge with enough sticks and feelign sure it will be safe to cross. Arcane casters have to go through all the physics and statics of math (the laws of nature) to ensure their bridge doesn't collapse. At the end of the day both will cross the bridge, but it would take the Arcane caster longer but their bridge would likely be safer and sturdier.
That illustrates how in terms of pure potential Arcane spells can do more though in meta Divine casters tend to be better (see Shalltear).
Spiritual Casters are a slightly different animal being from a different series of games altogether. But the fact Spiritual spells can identify Talents does suggest some stuff. I'll leave that for you to ponder though!
Now onto Other casters. Namely, Paladins. They are very similar to Divine casters, in fact they are Divine casters in some games. But the difference in Overlord is they use more modern views on them. That is, they access the divine nature of this world through belief as well. But their belief is not in something as the source of life or nature. Rather, their belief is fueled by a sense of righteousness or justice. IE they believe in something as justice so much it is a fanaticism slightly different from religion.
The easiest example is that Paladins are patriots, Divine casters are religous people. Go read the article on this if you want a broader look on the differences between Divine and Karmatic power.
Ziggy believes Other spell casters are those that don't fit into the other 3 categories. Which is a tautology but still. It's HOW they interact with Arcane and Divine are loosely inspired by the science vs religion world view of Europe and all the fears of what going from one to the other brought (Frankenstein for example is a commentary on this of sorts, as is the Hunch Back of Notre Dame in regards to the understanding literacy brought and the change in world view it brings; you feel or see something of such grandeur it makes you feel a certain way for example Notre Dame cathedral was a beautiful structure but often we modern people don't understand that to the uneducated and illiterate that these large displays of objects like Albedo says show off power and greatness for people. It's the loss of this feeling that is behind that book and something modern people tend to only feel in the outdoors now adays since we make skyscrapers like breakfast).
Spiritual casters though, based on their Eastern origin in both inspiration and TRPG games they came from likely stem from the Eastern view on spirituality. Think something like Chinese fold remedies, Shinto practices, and so on. There was a certain degree of spirituality AND science to their beliefs. Just look at pressure points, their system of divination, the complicated rules they had for warding, etc. In terms of spells too, they do fall inbetween the other two systems, having healing spells and many utility based spells too. At least in so far as we see.
Ninya does tell us that one must connect to the world to cast magic. They just do it differently between each system of magic.
Thus, what Ainz surmises, that people are just tapping into a cloud of energy may not be wrong. Instead of Gods, Maruyama decided to cut them out and instead standardized the source of magic but not the way to access it. Or so Ziggy believes.
"What the fuq does this have to do with ritual casting!??!?!?!!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?"
Well dear reader, there is a reason why I ramble. Tsk tsk.Breaking down magic this way let's Ziggy explain better the thing Maru ripped off!
First, remember Nameless Spellbook? It instantly records magical spells no, evne those that are newly created?
Well this rips off something very vague not from TRPG to some extent but Maru used it to explain a mechanic in TRPG.
What this mechanic is, well it's why Over Magic and rituals work! Effectively, one can cheat and temporarily gain access to spells they don't know! Now what does that remind us of?
Ding ding ding.
And do you know that only Divine castesr can use this ability in the game Maru took it from? That isn't because of MP transfer though. MP transfer didnt' exist in the game. IT has to do with something greater. Ainz's thoughts are closer to what this is than just sharing MP, that is drawing upon something that people call God but is something more mysterious than that.
So both Sharyusu and the Miko Hime used Over Magic. The Miko Hime however showed us she took damage no? Or at least she was bleeding compared to what Krusch felt through mana exhaustion. Ziggy believes teh blow back from Over Magic aloen is not enough to cause that harm since it only uses lots of mana as we are told. Instead, the combination of a ritual and Over magic may be the cause.
You see, ritual casting limited only to Divine casters has two different versions actually, but they appear similar. One is communal casting. The other is magic concentration. And we actually see both in Overlord.
"NANI!?!??!?!", you might say.
Others might ask "There's a difference?"
Well here's the genius of Slaine. They seem to have combined both methods. Crazy right? But we actually know that the other methods exist separately. This is one of those subtle things Maru likes to set up that seem similar but are different!
Let's break them down:
Communal Casting: (Lizardmen)
A group of Divine casters work together to cast a spell. This increases the castable Tier by 1.
Magic Concentration (Calca's Crown):
A ritual is performed using a magical keystone or focus if you will. A group of divine casters do not create a shared spell but instead funnel their magical power into an item or focal point.
These are really very similar in fact. So why does Ziggy think Slaine is genius?
They combined these two to squeeze out as much as possible from their given spell casting tier and to do what we see: they can cast Tier 8 spells. This is why in Volume 2, Khajiit only used a Tier 7 spell. Nfirea, being an Arcane caster with the crown could only use Tier 7 magic, which doesn't match the limitations of Slaine or the Lizardmen. How come the Lizardmen can only go one Tier above while he can use several tiers higher with far less help from Zuranon?
The reason is that Nfirea's case was not the Lizardman one or Slaine. In fact, it's Calca's case.
What Nfirea was as Clementine said, a magical item that allows the use of high tier spells. It's the CROWN which casts the spell, not Nfirea.
...
Do you see, stick with Ziggy and you'll understand it!
Let Ziggy elaborate:
The Lizardman way basically is what Over magic is. You channel power and enable one person to cast a spell beyond their limits. This method mainly focuses on shared casting and MP sharing to some extent.
The Calca or Nfirea way which is how the Crowns of Wisdom work, is they already contain a high level spell. The ceremony in this case unlocks that spell for use but Divine casters are not needed at all in this case since Zuranon or at least Khajiit's group primarily seem to know Arcane spells with little Divine. There's a hidden element as to why it was possible for Zuranon to get Tier 7 Undeath Army to work, but... let's reel in the mind explosions for now.
All you need to know is that there is a Divine caster version and the item/weird version which needs something special Ziggy is cockteasing you about.
Do you understand why Slaine is genius?
They got a Tier 5 caster, strapped an item on her to make her into a magical item but she should theoretically also count for the divine caster communal ritual casting buff! Those meta gaming assholes!
Well this is the alternative theory as to why Slaien can go two Tiers up but others cannot. Both theories could be true, but Ziggy favors this one simply because it addresses why Nfirea could use Tier 7 magic but the Lizardmen could only go one Tier up.
To Ziggy's knowledge, this doesn't come from a game Maruyama played. Instead, he seems to have made his own rules. Any Tier spell can be used if sealed in an item or focus. How this gets sealed is a different story... just look at Calca and the Crowns of Wisdom. As Ainz said the Crown of Wisdom didn't exist in YGGDRASIL so how did it come to form? The Six Great Gods shouldn't have formed it at least.... X files theme plays It's crazier than you might think, but enough cock teasing!
The Slaine method which seems to combine these methods has the advantages of both. The item method allows the use of a high tier spell, but since the person is an item, by normal YGGDRASIL rules that spell cannot be enhanced. The Lizardman way, while limited by the spell casting ability of user can be enhanced by the group or meta magic. Slaine has a magic item person, so theoretically they fall under both categories! Since they select Miko Hime's who are Tier 5 users (WN), they can abuse the item rule of turning the person into a focus. But also the Divine caster rule and enhance the ritual further. IE if the Lizardmen continue to perfect their ritual, they may eventaully discover the 2 Tier limit that Slaine has. However,
At least, that is how it appears to Ziggy. Let's break it down:
The Lizardman method and the Over Magic meta magic.There is a way to use the 8th Rank of Magic with a large ritual,in the centre of it is a human who can use the 5th Rank of Magic and can improve it.
It is also necessary for a large number of those who can use the 3rd Rank of Magic.The communal magic property.
Even with this, it can only be improved up to two ranks,Supposed Level limit of ritual casting and Over meta magic.
and it is believed that there is some form of device.Here is where the Slaine can only use Tier 7 confusion stems from. The RITUAL only allows a +2 Tier increase. However, with the Crown you effectively have a team cast the spell then have the Crown wearer use Over Magic to boost it a Tier higher. At least that is how Ziggy makes sense of the difference between these lines and how Maruyama is pretty consistent in saying Tier 8 is the limit in his notes. (People joke he fucked up Narberal's level but that is minor compared to messing up a Tier calculation especially in how he breaks down how this is outside Tier 7 on multiple occassions in his notes).
As Fluder does not have a skill to amplify magic, he cannot conduct a large ritual.What this suggests is that knowledge of magic is not enough to cast a ritual. As only Divine casters of far less knowledge of Fluder can cast it, it suggests the Divine only rule. Likely since Bishop is not from this game where rituals exist, that's why Fluder lacks the means to use them.
In this way both types of ritual are linked to Divine casters. Communal magic requires the mana transfer and communal casting ability while the item ritual method requires that hidden ingredient that only Necromancers can also tap into.
Dang, that took a while to write up. I'm curious how Maruyama will reveal the behind the scenes of rituals. Will it really be level based or more like how the game was he copied the idea from? Hopefully this made you pay attention more to this very minor detail because it might be important later... or not. The Theocracy will probably get wiped out offscreen...
...
Hm? 'I didn't explain the god thing'?
Well I'll be vague here. You should think more on these things yourself. But, think about why rituals work. Now think about what a god is. Over magic works because....
This sounds cryptic but you have to understand what implications happen if you put all these different ideas in a blender. That's why Overlord is so intereresting. Maruyama takes ideas and tropes to their natural extension. If you think about why Neia can awaken as a Paladin or why Over magic lets people use magic they do not know but it seems limited to Divine casters... maybe that's a big enough hint? If you think about the converse of these mechanics you might also start to understand why-
(TO BE CONTINUED... whenever Ziggy feels like it which might be tomorrow. Or never. Or ...)
Notes:
"...Yes, and the ritual’s going well too." Crusch answered Zaryusu’s question as she looked around the village. The ritual which the priests were conducting in the village might well be another trump card for the Lizardmen. Normally, it would have taken a very long time, but since all the priests of all the tribes were gathered together, it was progressing at a tremendous pace, quickly enough to be used in this battle. "So this is the power of cooperation …"[V4]
"Crusch, what’s with this cold wind …" "...You might not believe me if I say this, but please listen to me. I originally thought that the weather changes from before were the result of the fourth tier spell [Control Clouds], but I was wrong. [Control Clouds] can control clouds, but it cannot generate cold winds like this. Therefore …this isn’t just controlling clouds, but altering the weather. In other words, I think the enemy used a sixth tier spell …[Control Weather]." ... Such cold winds could not blow in this weather — in other words, this was a supernatural change in the environment that was beyond their ability to comprehend. The Lizardmen’s morale plummeted to rock bottom. Previously, only clouds had appeared. The priests could still control clouds if they gathered together, built a huge bonfire, and conducted a ritual. However, when the Lizardmen felt the chill kiss of this autumn-like wind, they realized how powerful their foe was to be able to manipulate such normally uncontrollable natural phenomena.[V4]
The Miko Princesses stood at the heart of the Slaine Theocracy’s rituals. There was no way that she as a former member of the Black Scripture would not know what would happen when she snatched the Crown of Wisdom away from its bearer. After all, when the time came for a new Miko Princess to be appointed, the job of the Black Scripture was to remove the Crown from its current wearer, and then promptly send the now-insane Miko Princess to be with the gods.[V2]
"…It’s called the Death Spiral, right?" "Indeed. It’s the rite our leader is conducting." In places where the undead gathered, more powerful undead were born. When these more powerful undead gathered, even more powerful undead would appear. The magic rite which made use of this property was like a spiral, constantly spawning ever more powerful undead beings. It was potent enough to destroy an entire city, so it was known as the ”Death Spiral.” This wicked ritual had been conducted in the past, and it had turned a metropolis into a city of the dead where the undead roamed free. Khazit’s aim was to turn E-Rantel into another such dead city. He would turn himself into an undead being by harnessing the necromantic energies from such a place. He had made extensive preparations to achieve his aim. He would not let this woman who had showed up just a few days ago ruin his plans.[V2]
Only Narberal remained with Ainz by the time they reached the chapel at the heart of the graveyard. Several suspicious-looking fellows were standing in a circle in front of the chapel, apparently conducting some kind of ritual. They all wore crude black robes which covered their entire bodies, and which varied in both texture and color. Their black head cloths hid their faces and only showed their eyes, while the wooden staves they carried had strange carvings on their ends. They were short, and by the way they carried themselves, they were probably all men. The only exposed face belonged to the man in the middle, and he looked like he was undead. He was well-dressed, and seemed to be concentrating on the black stone that he held in his hand. The wind carried whispered words to Ainz’s ears. The voices in the air rose and fell in unison, and it sounded like some sort of chanting. However, it did not sound like a requiem to the dead, but more like some sort of dark ritual which blasphemed against the deceased.[V2]
Crafting this Skeletal Dragon had required two months of elaborate rituals and an immense quantity of negative energy. How could it be beaten so easily? He had worked and planned many years for this.[V2]
If even they could not handle a threat like this, then they could still conduct a grand ritual to summon the highest-ranked angel to deal with the problem. Surely the most exalted of angels would be able to triumph over Death Knights and Soul Eaters. However, the sheer number of foes made them very uneasy.[V10]
There is a way to use the 8th Rank of Magic with a large ritual, but in the centre of it is a human who can use the 5th Rank of Magic and can improve it. It is also necessary for a large number of those who can use the 3rd Rank of Magic. Even with this, it can only be improved up to two ranks, and it is believed that there is some form of device. Normally a country is needed to support this. As Fluder does not have a skill to amplify magic, he cannot conduct a large ritual.[WN]
At the lead was an old woman. White hair sprouted from above an extremely wrinkled face. However it was obvious that she was no ordinary old woman, for her eyes glimmered with wisdom, affection and power. Her pure white priest's outfit was engraved with symbols, and on each hand she wore rings that gave her magical protection. A plain but powerful magical headband decorated her forehead. A mysterious holy accessory hung from her neck. Right behind that old woman. Walking there was a young girl. She was extremely young, and did not seem to have gone through puberty yet. Wearing a blindfold, she was led by two young women. The cloth covering her eyes hid most of her facial features as well. Even so, it was possible to tell that she had a sharp face. However, as if nervous, her expression was a frozen mask. Her long hair fluttered in the wind, and shone with a soft glow in the moonlight. On her forehead she wore a large circlet that covered her head with threads like a spider's web. Decorating the string-like metal were countless gems, and a large blue crystal was embedded in the centre. She wore a cloth that was slightly open in the front. The cloth was thin, and with the moonlight shining brightly on her, her body underneath could be clearly seen. In addition, since the cloth was loosely fixed around her waist by a string, one could almost see her naked body each time the wind blew. That girl walked barefooted. No, not only the girl. Several women dressed similarly followed her closely. The main difference that their eyes were not covered, and that some were older. No, perhaps the first girl was the youngest.[WN]
With the Miko-Hime at the centre, a circle was formed around her. Absorbing the water, her clothes stuck to her skin. There was practically no difference from her being naked. However, all of them stayed silent. The Water Miko-Hime's expressionless face, and their own, all hid a tinge of nervousness. "Now focus your power on the Water Miko-Hime." Responding to the instruction of the old woman outside the pool, the people around the Water Miko-Hime began chanting simultaneously. These chants were part of their sacred book; prayers to the Water God. Waves formed in the water. These were not due to the wind. It was like the waves were conscious and formed waves. To be more precise, it seemed like they were caused by the Water Miko-Hime. No it was not like she was causing it. The Water Miko-Hime was indeed causing it. Fatigue started showing on faces of the surrounding women as their magic was drained.
The old woman, sensing the flow of magic, decided that it was enough. She gave her next order. "Now, activate. 8th Tier Magic [Planar Eye]." A large ritual. It was a method to temporarily increase one's magic power by concentrating the magic power of a group into one person. A large volume of magic power was sent to her by the surrounding high priests. A drop of blood dripped from the Water Miko's nose. She was trying to contain the large volume of magic power provided by the surrounding priests. This was an act that harmed her body. However the Water Miko-Hime showed no anguish. And then the Water Miko-Hime activated the magic that was far beyond her limits. "<Overmagic Planar Eye>" A divination magic of the 8th Tier. The priests in the water slowly began to fall. Losing consciousness due to lack of magic power was possible. However, large rituals did not cause such a loss of magic. This was as the members assembled were calculated to have ample magic power. And at worst, they were people that understood the point where they should stop. It was impossible for so many of them to lose consciousness.
"[Over Magic - Mass Light Cure Wounds]." Through the use of prodigious amounts of mana, one could forcibly cast a spell that should not have been normally usable. Aided by this metamagic enhancement, Shasuryu cast a spell that healed everyone’s wounds."[V4]
[<Translocation Damage>] Since Demiurge was put on guard by an unknown magic, he killed some of his force and whacked her with the intention of seeing what would happen. The shield he was expecting failed to materialise, and his fist pierced into Evileyes small stomach. ". Oh?" Demiurge felt his fist hit something soft, like a thick futon.[WN]
The gigantic arm closed in on Evileye. It moved much faster than she had imagined, filling up her field of vision like a gigantic wall. Evileye sensed that she would have a hard time evading and cast a defense spell. "[Damage Translocation]." Her vision turned black, and at the same time she felt a massive impact, as well as her body being savagely hurled through the air. Her line of sight spun round and round, and she had no idea where she was. When she hit the floor, the impact was such that she bounced lightly off, like a ball. Then she hit the ground again this time sliding to a halt. However — she was unhurt. Evileye used [Fly] to get back up in a way that defied common sense. She was unhurt. However, had she not used a spell which converted physical damage to mana depletion, she would probably be dying by now.[V6]
There was no way to safely remove the Crown of Wisdom. The only option was to destroy it. However, the Crown would delete the wearer’s personality and turn a human being into a magic item that could use incredibly high-tiered spells, so nobody would do anything wasteful like destroying it.[V2]
"Hm? Ehehehe I came to kidnap you I need someone to use the spell which summons a biiiiiiig horde of undead, [Undeath Army], so could you be my magic item? Onee-chan’s begging you" The Swords of Darkness sensed the air of malice radiating from the girl, and they immediately drew their weapons. Although everyone else was in a combat stance, the girl airily said: "That’s a seventh tier spell which hardly anyone can use, but it can be cast with the Crown of Wisdom. You can’t control all the undead it makes, but you can guide them! What a perfect plan!"[V2]
Nigun brought the crystal out in his trembling hand. His subordinates, usually vigorous and nimble, were chained down by fear and their movements were slow. Even these fearless men would hesitate when ordered to become a shield against a monster like the one which stood before them. However, he had to have them buy him some time, no matter what. The magic sealed within the crystal could summon the most powerful angel known to man. It was an angel that had single-handedly destroyed a Demon God that rampaged throughout the land two hundred years ago. It was an angel of the highest order, that could easily destroy a city. Casting the spell to summon that angel again required an incalculable amount of money and manpower, but Ainz Ooal Gown, this mysterious being, was worthy of being eliminated by its power. More importantly, it would be worse if the crystal was taken without the spell being cast.[V1]
"...We ought to use fire. Pour on the oil and ignite it. May I ask you to bless it, Calca-sama?" "Nee-sama, are we going to conduct the ritual of Holy Fire? Doing so to harm an opponent …is that really what a paladin ought to be doing?" "That’s fine, if Remedios thinks that’s the best way, then we’ll go with it. No, we should do it. Since he’s a demon, there’s no reason he won’t be hurt." Many demons were resistant to fire, but the Holy Fire was of the holy element, and fire resistance was only half as effective against it. "Then, Calca-sama, the preparations for the ritual—" "We don’t have time for that. Please use the simplified version." Calca looked straight ahead as she said that, and from the corner of Remedios’s eye, she saw her little sister wondering if she should go "But that—" Simplifying the Holy Fire ritual spell would place a great deal of strain on the user’s body. This was not something which she, as one of Calca’s subordinates charged with keeping her safe, ought to recommend. However, it would be even worse if they gave Jaldabaoth time. "If you think this is the best way, then we’ll do it. However, if I perform it by myself, I won’t be able to help you after that. Please keep that in mind …Then, can you light the fire right away?"
[V12]
She had cast warding spells on Rororo and healed him before coming here, and she had also been casting support spells on Zenberu. She had been overexerting herself. In addition, she had cast a summon spell on top of that. Her body was in an exhausted state and she was having trouble standing. She even lacked the strength to heal herself. In addition, Crusch had also calmly decided that the mana would have been wasted on doing so, given that she was slowly losing the ability to fight. However, if she felt here, it would demoralize Zenberu and Zaryusu, who were fighting on the frontlines. Blood flowed from the corner of Crusch’s mouth as she bit at the inside of her cheek to keep herself conscious. "[Middle Cure Wounds]!" She cast healing magic on Zaryusu, who was engaged in a melee with Igva. Her legs felt powerless and her vision was shaky. She felt a liquid sensation all over her body.. For a moment, Crusch had no idea why she had ended up like that. When had she fallen into the mud? However, she immediately realized the reason why. She had not taken additional wounds, so she must have passed out for a moment and collapsed. Crusch breathed a sigh of relief, not because she was still alive, but because she could still fight. She did not plan to force herself to stand. Rather, she had no strength left to stand, and she felt it would be a waste of energy to do so.[V4]
Sustaining the transformation spell and other magic would both lower mana and mana recovery rates to zero. Even though he could dispel the transformation if there was an emergency and use magic, he would be starting out from a depleted state.[v6]
"Then, use [Gate] to send our forces over together." "However, my mana might run out if I have to do it alone." "Ask Pestonya to help. Have her transfer mana to you. If that’s not enough, get Lupusregina to help as well."[V4]
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