Monday, December 5, 2022

[Article] Decem's Character Sheet, OVER Summoning, and Moar

Heyo, Ziggy here. 

There's many people who lamented how we didn't see any new classes on Decem's character sheet. However, if you analyze all the information given in the volume as well there's a few things about the broader system that begin to materialize in conjunction with his character sheet. At least there is... more than meets the eye.

The simplest to understand that somehow "Over" Summoning exists - something mentioned before but never fully confirmed until now. Though the true identity of Behemoth is unknown, it appears to be a Primal Earth Elemental to Ainz. However, Decem learned the name from someone else so maybe even he is mistaken about it's identity. The question remains - how could something that strong lack skills and also resemble a Primal Elemental?

If we approach the topic broadly we can make a few hypotheses. 

First consider Decem's build:

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Estimated Level mid 70's (based on MP)

    Lv. 65ish Druid (barely a Tenth Tier caster)

    Lv. 10ish Elementalist(Earth) - Arcane?

Barely tenth tier suggest ten of Decem's combat levels do not count toward Druid or Divine casting

Decem also has as much mana as Shalltear - someone with 80 job class levels manly in divine casting

Shalltear has approximately mid to high 70s worth of MP (verified by FD's pixel counting tables as well)

Summons Lv. 80ish Elemental (may or may not be a Primal Elemental)

    strong enough Decem cannot beat it ( by 10+ Over powered rule, that means the Elemental is 10+ish levels over Decem as it doesn't have any anti magic skills to skew things in it's favor)

    weak enough that his father (a Player, most on average are max level 100) can defeat it

 

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 -from Firedragon1x "FD" the Word Processing Dragon Emperor


CLASS LEVELS: 

    Druid Lv. ? 

    High Druid Lv. ?

    Summoner Lv. ?

    Elementalist(Earth) Lv.? 

    Others

[V16]

“[Life Essence]. Hoo!” Ainz let out a voice in surprise. The elf’s HP pool was huge. It easily surpassed the Pleiades and was probably at least level 70 by YGGDRASIL’s standards. This made him an opponent they couldn’t be careless around.

[V16]

Psychic magic could end this in a single blow, but it’s doubtful whether it would work on Decem who was expected to be over level 70.

[V16] 

Considering Decem was probably a druid above level 70, it was highly likely that Ainz couldn’t overtake him with his speed.

[V16] 

Ainz showed his open palm to the twins, making a pose to tell them not to move. From his estimates of Decem’s HP and MP, he seemed to be above level 70 but below level 80.

[V16]

========================================================================= 


Given Decem's relative level, his father being  a Player, Zesshi being faster than he was,  the admission that Decem feels he could not defeat Behemoth and Ainz's own observation of stats, it's fairly likely Behemoth who is stronger than Decem who himself is in the 70s is a level 80 being - a threat to Decem but not to Players(level 100s). That does line up with a Primal Earth Elemental being's levels revealed in the Season 1 Special novel - so Ainz's assumption appears correct. 

We learn later that summoning beings stronger than yourself is normally an impossibility in YGGDRASIL. However, for beings of the New World in their logic specialists can actually summon monsters higher level than they are. After all, Slaine can summon high tier angels via rituals as well. 

And we also know that New Worlders can use a unique Meta magic - OVER meta magic. Normally this just lets a caster expend more mana to use spells they do not know. But this is actually just one application of a broader mechanism - mana expenditure can enable casters for various effects. 

Let's focus on Mana Expenditure - Mana Over-Consumption

Mana Over-Consumption: A mechanic of the New World where tier magic casters can expend additional mana (either via class skills or via skills like meta magic) for various purposes beyond the cost of typical spells to augment or skirt the rules of YGGDRASIL. 

Examples of Mana Over-Consumption:

1: OVER meta magic (use mana to access magic you haven't learned)

“[Over Magic – Mass Light Cure Wounds].” Through the use of prodigious amounts of mana, one could forcibly cast a spell that should not have been normally usable. Aided by this metamagic enhancement, Shasuryu cast a spell that healed everyone’s wounds. “Oh…” Cocytus looked at Shasuryu with interest as the latter used a metamagic technique he had never heard of before. H

[V4]

2: Mana Offsetting Damage

“[Damage Translocation].” Her vision turned black, and at the same time she felt a massive impact, as well as her body being savagely hurled through the air. Her line of sight spun round and round, and she had no idea where she was. When she hit the floor, the impact was such that she bounced lightly off, like a ball. Then she hit the ground again this time sliding to a halt. However — she was unhurt. Evileye used [Fly] to get back up in a way that defied common sense. She was unhurt. However, had she not used a spell which converted physical damage to mana depletion, she would probably be dying by now.

[V6]

3: OVER casting: casting multiple spells at once

She activated three of these potent ― to her ― spells at once. She was simultaneously casting three spells, each one of which used a significant amount of mana. In addition, simultaneously casting spells was very draining in itself, and as the shock of using huge quantities of mana hit her, she felt light and floaty, as though she were about to pass out.

[V13]

4: OVER Duration

Adepts of Surshana had a special ability with a limited number of uses per day. This ability allowed them to extend the effective time of a spell by consuming their mana. Taking advantage of that ability, he had already exhausted most of his mana to maintain his other spells; therefore, he did not have enough mana to effectively use [Fly]. 

[V15] 

5: OVER level meta magic

He came out of hiding from behind the tree and activated his abilities at the same time. He also activated the once-per-day trump card of the Arcane Devotee class that Holocaust Scripture required its members to acquire. He used it to access the spell-strengthening metamagics he had yet to learn. Naturally, he chose [Triplet Magic].

[V15]

6: OVER Summoning

 Decem could control and order elementals stronger than him. Generally, it would be impossible to summon or control those stronger than yourself, but due to one of the jobs Decem learned, he could ignore that restriction. However, it came with the price that his mana would be gradually consumed while the summon was fighting. 
[V16] 

 

Once you compile all the ideas you begin to see a broader mechanic at play here in the New World - by investing more mana into spells (over saturation of mana) you can produce effects beyond the logic of YGGDRASIL. The price is steeper but you can do things you shouldn't be normally able too. In this context, Decem summoning a summon way beyond his level isn't so strange if it is using the same principle of investing mana to maintain something he shouldn't be able too. If you can use spells you don't know, meta magic you don't know, or even prolong spells beyond duration, why not summon something stronger than you? He had to sacrifice levels to get that ability too, so it isn't so strange in Ziggy's opinion. The question is why is the summon he summons so much stronger than he is - beyond anything else he seems to know of?

 

It seems  like there is an upper bound however on how Decem's OVER summoning works - just like we see Sharyusu cannot cast Tier 10 spells by using OVER meta magic. Using Maruyama's logic for the New World's physics or game design, that is there is a margin of deviation for powers that break YGGDRASIL's rules. This Margin of Deviation is first explored with Nigun - who having a Talent, can strengthen his summons to measure up to heroes of the Black Scripture(people a rank or so stronger than he is). Brain's Talent likewise let him use ONE more martial art (increasing his Focus Capacity by 1 which normally requires a few levels of Fighter investment).  Hekkeran likewise can use a Martial Art to increase his Focus Capacity to use one more martial art. It's unknown but OVER meta magic probably is bounded to a degree as well. You would need more mana or more levels to do more.

Z.B. and Ziggy think OVER summoning could be operating on a similar logic of a minor bump in level to what you can summon (an OVER summon is something you can summon at the cost of continual mana depletion). Maru was somewhat vague but if we assume Behemoth is a Primal Earth Elemental and collect all of the details about Decem's level, we can construct a model for how this mechanic might stagger in generality with him as one data point.

 

Specialized Caster Summoning Bonuses(OVER Summoning Bonus):

 

Casters cannot normally summon above their level(YGGDRASIL)

 MAX SUMMON LEVEL = Caster's Level

Exception - Specialized Summoners acquire bonus levels to summons(beyond their own caster level)

Ignores systems (the bonus is a summation from all possible classes not stacking based off systems)

Bonus levels stack so long as the bonus is not for pure casting but a secondary trait like BONUSes

+1 Level (beyond Caster/Character's Level) Per Tier as a summoner or classes with summoner bonuses

 

eg: Decem Level. 63-65ish Druid Tier 10 so +10 levels to summoning

Elementalist +1-2 levels to Elemental Summons (however many needed to get to mid 70s)

Decem estimated Level 75 (Bonus of about 11-12 levels to his own summons)

Level 87 Primal Earth Elemental theoretically summonable


"barely" Approximately Level 63-65 = Druid Level
Tier 1-2 Elementalist (Earth) =  5-10ish Arcane Levels(unknown if any other Arcane classes before Elementalist) 
 
 
Level 87: Primal Fire Elemental
Level 87: Primal Water Elemental
Level 87: Primal Air Elemental
Level 87: Primal Earth Elemental
Level 90: Primal Star Elemental

[Prologue]

 

Seven Levels Per Tier Theory

Tier 1

Lv1-7

Tier 2

Lv 8-14

 

Tier 3

Lv 15-21

Tier 4

Lv 22-28

 

Tier 5

Lv 29-35

Tier 6

Lv 36-42

 

Tier 7

Lv 43-49

Tier 8

Lv 50-56

 

Tier 9

Lv 57-63

Tier 10

Lv 64-70

 

Every tier you invest into magic and or summoning, you get a +1 to the max level of a monster you can OVER summon(should you invest in mana costs to keep a monster higher level than you out). This comes at the price of needing to dedicate levels to summoning and likely forsaking other Druid pathways in Decem's case. Hence his physical and casting wouldn't be quite as strong as a physical Druid or pure caster type Druid like Mare. Certain classes might be able to double dip with some summoning bonuses for example without being a specific Summoning class.

Theoretically OVER summoning may not be available until later however. That is you might need to invest into it several tiers before you unlock it.



Effective Summoning Bonus (OVER Summoning Level Range)

===========================================================================

Format Key: 

Max Tier of Usable Magic(+ stacks two systems with summoning specialization)

OVER summoning bonus level to Summonable Monsters

Number of Casting Levels 

Level Range of Max Summonable Monsters

===========================================================================

Tier 1

 +1 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 1-7

Lv. 2-8 Max summonable Monsters

 

Tier 2

+2 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 8-14

Lv. 10-16  Max summonable Monsters

==============================================

Tier 3 (Krusch example - average Platinum to Mithril Adventurer)

+3 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 15-21

Lv. 18-24 Max summonable Monsters

 

Tier 4 (Nigun example - average Orichalcum to Adamantite rank adventurers)

+4 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 22-29

Lv. 26-33 Max summonable Monsters

=================================

Heroes and Outliers

Tier 5

+5 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 30-35

 Lv. 35-40 Max summonable Monsters

 

 Tier 6

+6 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 36-42

Lv.42-48 Max summonable Monsters

 

 Tier 7

+7 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 43-49

Lv. 50-56 Max summonable Monsters

================================

 Tier 8

+8 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 50-56 

Lv. 58-64 Max summonable Monsters

 

 Tier 9

+9 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 57-63

Lv. 66-72 Max summonable Monsters

================================

Player Descendants Only

 Tier 10 

+10 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 64-70

Lv. 74-80 Max summonable Monsters

 

Tier 10+1

+11 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 71-77 (Decem Example)

Lv. 82-88 Max summonable Monsters

 

Tier 10+2

+12 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 78-84 

Lv. 90-96 Max summonable Monsters

 

Tier 10+3

 +13 to own Level for OVER summoning

 Lv. 85-91 (Zesshi level Player Descendant)

Lv. 98-104  Max summonable Monsters

=======================================

Theoretical Player Descendants (max recorded is Lv. 88 - 92+ has no precedent)

 

Tier 10+4

+14 to own Level for OVER summoning

Lv. 92-99

Lv. 106-113 Max summonable Monsters


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"Behemoth"

Decem claimed his Elemental had NO skills (besides it's hiding) - contingency summoning?

Ainz claimed Primal Elementals do have skills

a: Decem's summon isn't a Primal Earth Elemental

Something like a familiar outside YGGDRASIL 

New Worlders can create custom summons? (no precedent)

Behemoth was formed from inert ground left dormant in certain locations
*Counter argument: Decem's spells also left water behind (so any druid spell might have this byproduct)

b: Decem's summon is a Primal Earth Elemental

As a summoner his levels let him pool anything from YGGDRASIL in the 80s he met the requirements for

IE cannot invent new summons but can pull from the entire YGGDRASIL monster collection

       eg: Skeletal dragons something Ainz cannot summon are spawnable in the New World

            By that logic, as long as it exists as a monster in YGGDRASIL it can be summoned

            via OVER summoning or similar rituals

            Khajit proves you can summon Skeletal Dragons  via rituals

Because Decem never uses the summons name it cannot use it's skills?

    True Names and Summons (eg Demons)  "disappear"

    NPCs like Narberal and Demiurge never use their full abilities without revealing their names

    Dragon Lords like Tsa use false names while hiding their abilities. 

 

Mercenary monsters like  NPCs can be given names (do not need monster name)

Theory: Decem tried to summon the being his father talked about and accidentally summoned a Primal Earth Elemental - but mistook it for a Behemoth. As the Behemoth mistook that for it's "nickname" just like Ainz gave a rank to the Hanzo Leader, it still will follow orders. But it cannot use skills without it's True Name? 

Rororo acts find as a Hydra but he's a mount not a summon. But how come other summoners can summon beings they know and use their skills?

Is the correct name the reason? Or do OVER summon beings like Lesser classes, lack Skills? Dominion of Authority used skills just fine and it was summoned via a ritual by far weaker casters in a manner similar to OVER summoning. When  people summon beings do they need to learn their names from somewhere? Any being that can talk can tell it's name, but what about those unable to talk?

Slaine doesn't OVER summon unique angels and neither did Roble, so it does appear summoners cannot just summon anything unnatural even with OVER summoning.

That would suggest, the lack of precedence, that Behemoth has to be something from YGGDRASIL and given both Ainz and Schen considered it an Earth Elemental, most likely it is a Primal Earth Elemental. Given that the knowledge of monsters is not complete - there are some monsters not recorded in records, higher tier monsters may have unknown names. So Summoners may be able to summon monsters but may not actually know their actual names. In that case, we can explain how Decem named Behemoth but failed to learn it was a Primal Earth Elemental (inferred to be his father). No one else would be able to identify it besides Players and given what he did know, he learned about a raid boss but not the top tier of Elementals since it's a niche subject.    

One alternate possibility was Decem's father taught Decem about the strongest Earth Elemental raid boss from some dungeon (the Elemental Guardian of the Land) and Decem mistook that boss for his Elemental (being something way stronger than should be summonable by a Druid. So it was Decem coming to a false conclusion using what little he did know - just like Decem came to the wrong conclusion about Mare and Aura and Zesshi. He lacked all the details and connected the wrong things. Clearly Behemoth from the game wasn't the Elemental Guardian of the Land. Likewise, the Elemental Guardian of the Land wasn't Behemoth either. 

That's what seems to be the issue - Decem connected two separate descriptions from his father into one. A telling idea is how Decem didn't seem to know much about some of what a Primal Earth Elemental could do - namely elongating it's arms or moving through the ground. He knew it could form from the Earth itself, but that was it. The question remains, how do summoners know what skills their summons can use in the New World? 

Intuitively it should be like how they know how to use magic items. But given Decem wasn't the one who named Behemoth - rather it seems to be he didn't name it himself at least, maybe summoners don't always know everything about their summons. Schoen thought it was more an Elemental Lord himself. using the common sense of the world, most superior beings would be "Lords". Yet Decem despite calling himself the Elf King(Lord), he did not think of himself as a Lord or special type of Elf as his father was also just an Elf. Which is actually correct - as a Player no such designations existed. Decem, born in this world however, would normally call larger, superior beings "Lords" like Dragon Lords.  He also notably called ancient dragons just dragons not dragon lords as well. That makes sense given he knows stories of Dragon Lords his father killed as a Greed King and so would know a distinction between the two. 

The precedence here is the idea how Decem comes to false conclusions using evidence. So like his first conclusion that Zesshi was the mother to the twins. Or falsely believing the twins to be his own descendants. Zesshi had a similar failing with trying to figure out Mare's identity and build.

The most likely explanation however is that summons summoned via OVER summoning like Lesser classes lose features to be summon-able. The precedence being Lesser classes come at a clear penalty. That same penalty idea might apply to Over summons. The sacrifice for them being Skills. They still have the base level and stats however, so it's not as crippling. In the New World it's a boon for the fact level disparity is so brutal that can be more valuable than skills.

===========================================================================

The Death Knight was another mystery. In Yggdrasil, all summoned monsters would vanish after a certain time unless special methods were used in their summoning. He had not used any such methods to summon the Death Knight and its summoning time was long past, but it remained here.

[V1] 

“The monsters you summoned are similar to those in Yggdrasil, so I was curious as to whether the names were the same. Many of Yggdrasil’s monsters were derived from mythology… monsters like angels or demons should be no exception. Said angels and demons are most commonly associated with Christianity, but it seems quite unnatural that something called an archangel exists in a world without Christianity. That would mean someone like myself must exist in this world.”

[V1] 

Someone was muttering to themselves. Angels summoned from magic had bodies created from their summoners’ mana, so they were definitely not light. They weighed more than a grown man, and then there was the weight of their armor to consider as well. There was no way they could be lifted up by the throat so easily.

[V1] 

The Principality of Observation was a high-tier angel whose offensive and defensive strength were in a 3:7 ratio. It boasted the strongest defense of all other angels in its tier. In addition, Nigun’s natural-born Talent, [Enhance Summoned Monster], could improve the stats of any monster Nigun summoned. As a result, there were very few people who could defeat a Principality of Observation summoned by Nigun. Nigun had never seen anyone defeat it with just one spell. Even the Black Scripture, whose members’ power pressed against the limits of humanity, could not do it. In other words, Ainz Ooal Gown’s power exceeded that of mankind.

[V1] 

It was an angel of the highest order, which could easily destroy a city. Casting the spell to summon that angel again required an incalculable amount of money and manpower, but Ainz Ooal Gown, this mysterious being, was worthy of being eliminated by its power. More importantly, it would be worse if the crystal was taken without the spell being cast.

[V1] 

The legendary angel descended upon the earth, and Nigun exulted: “Behold! The glorious visage of the highest angel! Dominion Authority!”

[V1] 

Still, there were many magic items which could summon creatures, just as there were many summoning spells in magic. Any monsters summoned with those spells would vanish after a while. Summoned monsters were not creatures which could persist for a long time.

[V2] 

“So he’s definitely there. And the metal plates should be nearby… hm, a big mass of undead?” There was a group of undead around Nfirea. They were all low-tier undead, but they were present in surprising numbers. “…What do you plan to do? Teleport in and wipe them all out at once? Or perhaps use flight magic to attack them from above?” “Don’t be silly. Wouldn’t either of those methods mean that the problem gets solved without anyone knowing about it?” Seeing that Narberal had no idea of what he was talking about, Ainz continued his explanation: “Whoever created all these undead must have done so in preparation for something of earthshaking proportions. Therefore, if we save Nfirea and deal with that matter at the same time, it will greatly boost our reputations. If we do this on the quiet, we will only receive Lizzie’s payment, and we won’t be able to gain much fame from it.” That said, if they did not take care of the situation quickly, there was a high chance that Nfirea might die. Even Ainz could not summon this many undead and control them, so there must have been some sort of trick at work here. Nfirea’s life might well be an important part of that trick.

[V2]

The stroke of lightning made Crusch hurt all over, but she bit her pain back and cast [Summon Beast – 3rd]. A huge — roughly one hundred fifty centimeters — crab with an enormous right pincer appeared from the surface of the water, as though it had always been sleeping there and just woken up. Needless to say, it had been conjured by the [Summon Beast – 3rd] spell.

[V4] 

“Ah yes, Master. Does that secret tome which records all manner of monsters mention that particular monster?” “No,” Fluder said while stroking his beard. “Perhaps the complete version of the Eryuentiu might, but the only copies circulating in the outside world are not complete.” One of his disciples seemed to have a question, which he addressed to a disciple next to him. While his voice was very soft, the room was the very embodiment of silence, and so his words seemed surprisingly loud. “What’s the Eryuentiu?” “Isn’t it the name of a city?” “I know that, but it sounds really weird.” “Hm… I looked it up once. I think it’s a word from an ancient language which means, ‘The great tree at the heart of the world.’”

[V7]

There were three types of monsters in Nazarick: the first were the NPCs, who were made just like the Players were; the second were the automatically spawning monsters of level 30 and below, and the last ones were the summoned monsters who could serve as mercenaries. These mercenary monsters had to be summoned via a ritual which used a book and then expending an appropriate amount of currency according to their level. Therefore, one could not summon them without a book.

[V8]

Summon spells ― including this Super-Tier spell ― would terminate after a while. Thus, he had to avoid wasting time

[V10]

Calca’s powerful voice filled the plaza, and the angels in the perimeter and hidden among the priests spread their wings and took flight. There were five angels who held swords of fire, summoned through third-tier spells — Archangel Flames. There were twenty more summoned through second-tier spells, Angel Guardians. And then, there was a single angel which Calca had summoned before arriving here — a Principality of Peace. While she did not remember what powers the angels possessed, she remembered that the Principality of Peace which Calca summoned could use low-tier divine spells and could use abilities such as the ability to grant protection from evil, smite evil, and cause mass silence, among others. That was because she had often seen Calca summon it

[V12] 

The adventurers ran over to collect their comrades who had fallen by Remedios’s feet. While their immobile bodies were clearly dead, they still believed in the faint probability that it might not be so. “…How bothersome. Even if they are nothing more than insects, a swarm of them is still unpleasant.” Jaldabaoth sounded perfectly composed. Indeed, being able to negate the spells cast on him from the rear and perfectly evade physical attacks made him seem overwhelmingly superior. However— Do you think we’ve never fought enemies like this before? Unless their summoners were specialists, summoned monsters were generally weaker than the ones who called them forth. Therefore, there were cases where angels’ attacks ended up being useless

[V12] 

“In other words, Jaldabaoth can conjure that demon any number of times as long as certain conditions are met? Or perhaps he can summon the same demon multiple times?” Neia could not cast spells, but she had heard this during her lectures. It was difficult to summon multiple beings with summon magic. In other words, when a summon spell was active, casting another summon spell would cause the previous summon spell to end. The currently summoned monsters would go back from whence they came and new monsters would be summoned in their place. However, people capable of high-tier summoning spells could simultaneously conjure several weaker monsters at once, of the sort that one would evoke with a low-tier summon spell. For instance, one could use a fourth-tier spell to summon multiple monsters that could be invoked by a third-tier spell. “I don’t understand at all. His method of summoning demons is still a mystery. While it felt like he was summoning them with spells, he couldn’t have summoned multiple demons of such power… but if he could, that would beg the question of why he did not do so in the Kingdom. Perhaps if he were a magic caster who specializes in summoning, he could simultaneously summon multiple copies of such a creature…” “So even if we defeated the scaly demons, Jaldabaoth could immediately resummon it?” “Just so. However, that refers to the situation where Jaldabaoth conjures them with magic. If he used some kind of special ability to do it, that would be another matter entirely.”

[V12] 

“This might be a very basic question, but where did Jaldabaoth come from? Was the name of Jaldabaoth passed down from earlier days?” “That is unclear. We’ve studied all sorts of literature, but we haven’t been able to find that name in any of them. We’ve also tried looking for clues based on his appearance, but similarly, we haven’t been able to make any headway either.” “Could it be an alias? Maybe he caused trouble under a different name in the past?” “I doubt that. To demons — this applies to angels as well — their names are a very important part of their very being. If a demon wants to show up, it has to engrave its name into the world. Therefore, they can’t use false names. Experiments show that using a false name might even cause them to disappear on the spot.”

[V12] 

The most likely explanation was that he had been given an alias. But why would he give him an alias? If he was from the Kingdom, he should have proudly declared his name and his intention to destroy the root of all evil that had started this war. Was it because he was someone who wished to remain anonymous of his own volition? Another possibility was that he was trying to draw Ainz’s aggression towards the real Riku Agneía, or perhaps the knowledge of his true name gave Ainz power over him or something. Although it was essentially pure wilderness when those lands came under his rule, they had still gathered quite a bit of intel from the demi-human residents of that land. Of the intel they gained, one was about the connection some had between their true name and soul, and how one could become more susceptible to curses should their true name become known.  

[V14]

He had seen Earth Elementals before. They were weird chubby-looking things, smaller than humans and with arms too large for their bodies. But, the one that stood before him was not such a cute thing. A misshapen body made of boulders and mineral ore, and as large as the trees around it, enough to make one call it the Earth Elemental Lord. Thick and long arms with stout but short legs. Maybe it would have looked comical if it was much smaller, but its arms and legs displayed power that no monster should be capable of. The elf king stood behind it, looking at Schoen’s desperate struggle with a sneer

[V15] 

“... By ‘this thing,’ you mean Primal Earth Elemental?” “Primal Earth Elemental?” “Of all things, that’s what caught your attention? A Primal Earth Elemental is what you’ve summoned, right? Or is it a different race...an elemental with a different name? Do you call it by a different name?” Even though it was fine if the lowly worm died in ignorance, Decem was irritated that he thought Behemoth was just a simple earth elemental or something from a similar race. Considering he also had to educate his grandkids correctly, he had to correct the enemy’s misunderstanding here.

“That’s Behemoth. The Elemental Guardian of the Land, Behemoth.” “Behemoth? So I didn’t mishear it...Elemental Guardian of the Land? Not the Great Magic Beast of the Continent? The raid boss? The Behemoth I knew looked a lot different...Who was the one that named it first? You?”

“Someone else, but — ”

[V16] 

While hiding his smile — of course, his face won’t move in the first place — Ainz tried to recollect Primal Earth Elemental’s abilities. The Primal Earth Elemental that was over level 80 played the tank role among the Primal Elementals of the same level. No, fundamentally, all earth elementals filled the same role. Its attacks were considered to have nearly all of the metallic attributes under its level to be included in them. For example, if beings like Lupusregina who had a weakness against silver got hit by it, it would trigger that weakness. Also, as long as both the opponent and itself stood on earth, it would have a bonus to all of its stats, even though meager. But, that shouldn’t work now as the original floor that was exposed after all of the soil had collected near Decem was made from plant material. It also supposedly had the ability to hide in soil, but that couldn’t be used here either. All things considered, he could say that this was not a good battlefield for the Primal Earth Elemental.

...

It could also extend its arms like whips and do long-range attacks, but in that case, its power would go down a lot. Just like its attacks, its defense was also supposed to have metal attributes imbued. It also had [Weapon Resistance V] against all weapons and physical damage reduction on top of that. Considering all of the above, it was the ideal tank and was troublesome to deal with using only physical attacks. That said, it also had some weak points, naturally. For example, it didn’t have any dangerous trump cards — that is, it had no special skills. That meant that it had no attack that could turn the tide in a battle. The other weak point was that everything that worked against metallic attributes worked the same on the elemental. ...Herohero-san could probably take it down easily. It was weak to acids and — there was one more element it was weak against. 

[V16]

...Right. There’s no doubt that he is specialized in summoning. The earth elemental’s attack will be more powerful than usual. It will be disadvantageous for the fight hereafter if I receive damage for no reason. I

[V16]

Summoners being weaker than their summons is impossible in YGGDRASIL, but you are probably the lower-leveled one here. 

[V16]

If this Primal Earth Elemental was a summon, all it needed was a single successful [Greater Rejection] and he wouldn’t need to prepare all these spells. However, if Decem really was specialized in summoner classes as he assumed, it probably wouldn’t succeed in dispelling the summon even with their large level difference. Plus, [Greater Rejection] could only dispel summons, not creations. Could it be an Elemental Adjutant? If it was created by sacrificing experience, it could be maintained nearly forever. But, it looks like he was consuming mana to maintain it so that shouldn’t be the case...I can’t really gamble on it though.

[V16] 

One does not simply believe the enemy’s words, but it’s not like Decem was lying either. No one was able to beat Behemoth till now, even the ancient dragons weren’t a match. Though they used Second-Tier magic to strengthen their bodies, they were still beaten into a pulp by Behemoth in the end. Even Decem himself would inevitably die if he turned Behemoth into his opponent. His father was probably the only one who could defeat Behemoth, but he was already dead. That meant that there was no one left who could

[V16]

It can’t be helped. Should I just use an attack spell? Behemoth and Me. He shouldn’t have any leeway to create new walls while taking on both of our attacks.
 Decem could use Tenth-Tier magic. A realm that the magic casters of this world could never reach even with all of their efforts — a tier only allowed for the chosen few. That said, he could only barely use it because he had specialized in summoning. He was certainly not good at it, though it should be enough to deal with something like that undead easily. But — was it fine to use his precious mana like that? He hesitated, wondering if he should save it for Behemoth instead.
[V16]
 
He already understood that it was not wise to deal with those walls one by one, but Behemoth unfortunately didn’t have any special skills. If he wanted to ignore the walls, the only other choice was to walk around them. If he did that though, the enemy would just make another wall
[V16] 
 
 Decem could control and order elementals stronger than him. Generally, it would be impossible to summon or control those stronger than yourself, but due to one of the jobs Decem learned, he could ignore that restriction. However, it came with the price that his mana would be gradually consumed while the summon was fighting.
[V16] 
 
Without her beasts, it’s possible that Aura may not be able to deal with him if he were to bring out some trump card he might be still holding on to. Maybe I should summon an undead...No, what if he summoned another Primal Earth Elemental? No, no, no...that should be impossible. It would be broken if one could just summon elementals stronger than them multiple times. Even Ainz, who specialized in necromancy, couldn’t do that. That said, what was ”impossible” to Ainz was ultimately according to YGGDRASIL’s standards and it was entirely possible that those rules didn’t apply to this world. Even though his game knowledge had been applicable till now, Decem’s command of that elemental was impossible by the game’s logic. 
[V16] 
Especially as the elemental that didn’t seem too strong. She can’t summon elementals and she can’t use attack magic either. . . . . . . a self strengthening type druid? Or am I missing or misunderstanding something crucial? . . . . . . .I heard that the one used by the elf king was a huge earth elemental. . . ..is this the one? But. . . .it doesn’t feel. . . ..that huge? The earth elemental that was rumored to be used by the elf king was supposed to be overwhelmingly strong, something not even outliers could win against. Compared to that, the elemental before her was too weak. But what appeared to be weak to someone strong like Zesshi could appear overwhelmingly strong to weaker people. An elemental this weak wasn’t too much of an issue
[V16]
=================================================================== 
 For clarification about Khajit's ritual - allowing him to summon something YGGDRASIL Players could not, does not receive much elaboration. The principle is sound - Skeletal Dragons are spawn-able naturally so there should be a way to artificially cause their genesis. The result is Khajit MAY be summoning a monster that shouldn't be on the Necromancer summon list. After all, New Worlders seem to be constrained by the same summon list as YGGDRASIL.
Thus a Skeletal Dragon may not be stronger than Khajit but it seems to suggest it was a summon off his normal summoning list. That would be a similar principle to Decem's summoning if it's a Primal Earth Elemental.
============================================================================

Khajitt (not a specialized summoner so can only OVER summon via rituals)

From the broken ground, something white slowly came out. It was a three meter tall mix of bones. Dragging countless bones, it was a beast with a head and four legs, a dragon. Its tail made of bones lined up together, hit the ground once with a bang. It was a monster called a Skeletal Dragon. By its level, it was not a strong monster. It was weaker than vampires. However, this Skeletal Dragon, had one thing that made it dangerous to Momon. 

[WN] 

While spitting his saliva out, Khajiit glared at Momon with hatred. “Why are you so irritated. Calm down.” “B, bastard!” Spending two months on a ritual to summon a Skeletal Dragon. And that was losing to an unfathomable man. Khajiit bit his teeth and tightened his lips.

[WN]

In other words, Ainz needed to give out orders when he is around. “Hah. This is annoying. However, this world’s magic that can summon a Skeletal Dragon cannot be underestimated. Even I can only make 12 Low Class Undead per day. I would like a Skeletal Dragon summoning magic.” 

[WN] 

“Skeletal Dragons have a difficulty rating of 48. It is at a level B Class adventurers can do something about. To defeat it alone—” As if he were speaking the impossible, Theo took a deep breath and continued. “He has a strength that rivals A Class. And being able to use Third Tier, and has a sword arm equaling A Class. How, I have have never heard of such a spellcaster! Isn’t he a warrior that can use magic!?”

[WN] 

But, I cannot stop my words of gratitude. We really have been saved by Momon-dono. If a B Class party met a Skeletal Dragon, they would be Momon-dono. If a B Class party met a Skeletal Dragon, they would be massacred.”

[WN] 

There exists a place known as the Katze Plains. It was the spawning location of one of the strongest undeads–immune to all magic, the Skeletal Dragons. Serving as the main battlefield of the Empire and Kingdom, the appearance rate of undeads there was high. 

[WN]

Q: Khajiit was quite strong as a human. His plans to use a ceremony, his disciples, the Pearl of Death, the cemetery etc. 

A: Among A-class Khajit is particular superior. In 4 months amassing power in the Pearl of Death lets him summon a Skeleton Dragon. With his disciples it’s 2 months? Should he rampage, it would lead to a great disaster.

[ARC]

Crafting this Skeletal Dragon had required two months of elaborate rituals and an immense quantity of negative energy. How could it be beaten so easily? He had worked and planned many years for this

[V2] 

“[Summon Undead – 10th]!” The one to replace the twin obsidian swords was the level 70, melee warrior Doom Lord. A rusted crown sat on his dome and a blood-stained cape hung off his back. Adorning his full-plate armor were multiple scythe-like curved blades. Minute amounts of negative energy ebbed from the gaps in its armor in the form of a foul black smog. His health was constantly decreasing, a penalty placed upon the Doom Lord for its agility which was unthinkably high for a level 70. Optimal use of such a summon required mastery over unit placement

[V14]

Ainz had timed for this, as he cast another [Summon Undead – 10th]. It was a level 68 undead, an Elemental Skull. Its appearance was of a floating skull, surrounding it was a magical haze of light that constantly switched between four colors: red, blue, green, and yellow. Ainz made it fall back and took its place at the front. The Elemental Skull was a caster type undead capable of using magic of the four major elements.

[V14] 

“If that is the case. Ainz-sama, because I can also summon Doom Lords, perhaps Ainz-sama had already noticed ~arinsu. It felt like its combat abilities were weakened significantly, was it because Pandora’s Actor was the summoner ~arinsu?” “That would not be the case. While Pandora’s Actor’s transformations are weaker than the original, his summons should not be any weaker. In addition, he had been instructed to not use any special abilities of mine to strengthen the summons… In any case, shall we both summon Doom Lords for you all to observe after this? Perhaps you could figure out what had been bothering you.”

[V14]

===========================================================================

Ainz a specialized Necromancer cannot summon all undead (some exist out of his list)

Theory: New Worlders can summon all monsters from YGGDRASIL with the new methods


OVER Summoning

Specialized Summoners can do it via consuming Mana continuously (Mana Over Consumption)

Out of List Summoning

Casters can conduct rituals to summon monsters not normally summonable by their classes

Closer to Create Undead instead of Summon Undead in Khajit's case


OVER summoners can Out of List Summon (seeing as the monster is outside the summon monsters they should be able to summon under YGGDRASIL's rules). We can confirm that New World summoners can summon YGGDRASIL monsters so the concept of summoning lists still exists to some extent. The precedent of OVER meta magic letting one use spells either out of list or requiring higher level investment also proves the concept is at least sound - rather than a baseless conjecture. If spells can be accessed beyond one's level, why not summoning spells and by extension higher level summons? Out of List Summoning would potentially be a subcategory of the same core idea. The distinction being someone can theoretically Out of List summon monsters weaker than they are too. 


=========================================================================

Primal Fire Elementals could be said to be among the highest ranking among all elemental monsters. They were over level eighty-five. Just like he had with the Moonlight Wolves, Momonga felt a mysterious connection to the Primal Fire Elemental. “Uwah…!” Aura was watching it intently as she made noises of surprise. As she looked upon the top-tier elemental, something that even her summoning powers would not be able to bring forth, Aura’s face bore a look of excited admiration, like a child who had just received a dearly beloved present.

[V1] 

Momonga shrugged to indicate that it was all right. The Staff could summon one Primal Fire Elemental a day. In other words, the Staff could summon another such being after one day had passed. As such, defeating it would not be a great loss.

[V1] 

Primal Fire Elemental—-An elemental spirit of the highest class. It was a level 80 monster. “Uwaa……” Aura’s voice was filled with admiration and looked up at it. In front of the highest class of spirit that he had never summoned before, Momonga had the face of a child that had received a toy that it had always wanted.

[WN]

===========================================================================

 Bonus: 

System Differentiation

Though Arcane, Divine, Spiritual(Psychic) and Other magic seem to be able to do similar things. We might actually finally found some distinction in how they differ beyond just job class pathways in the New World. 

Decem, a Druid and Divine caster, had spells that actually had a strange property - after being dispelled, some residual trace of matter remained linked to the spell used. If you compare how things worked for Evileye and Lizardmen Druids you can begin to understand there is a minute difference in how their powers worked - for example none of Evileye's Elementalism left behind tangible evidence of manipulation. Rather, like all ARcane magic, it materializes out of direct mana fabrication. 

In contrast, the Druids manipulate preexisting matter with mana infusion. Hence how Dyne would manipulate plants that are already present, Elves grow Elf Trees, and why when Druid summons die they leave behind residue of some sort and Druid spells leave things like water behind. Druid's thus might lose out in versatility but there is a tangible quality to their magic that can be useful in the right circumstances - for example Decem could use Tempest to water fields or create large bodies of water like ponds for paddy based agriculture with repeated use. Behemoth being able to hide inertly as just dirt is similar in principle - so long as he is not "materialized" he can persist without consuming mana. 

Druids in comparison to Clerics at least, require a material component to their casting - that is they are susceptible to environmental scarcity and biomes in what spells they can use. Plant spells likely don't work in non-plant environments for example. This is a give and take process though. In such places where the resources are avaible, they can more easily terraform and alter the environment like how Mare uses Earth Surge to create permament hills versus how long it took the Empire, who specializes in using Arcane magic casters, took to make a single hill. 

This might explain how Slaine could invent Arcane versions of Divine spells easily if Cleric and Arcane magic share similar properties, likewise explaining why Angels used by the Sunlight Scripture are no different from conventional summons mechanically.

===========================================================================

The last men of the group slowed down, extending their hands. They wanted to help Gazef onto their horse, but the angel looking down upon them from the heavens swooped down faster. Gazef drew his sword and swung at the angel. The steel blade became a swift flash of light. The stroke of the Kingdom’s strongest man was enough to cleave a man’s body in two. But the angel was not a man, and although it had taken a grave wound to its torso, it was not slain yet. The blood spraying into the air was the mana that composed the angel. It vanished like smoke.

[V1] 

“Is that so… if all we intend to do is hide the walls, Mare’s idea will be enough. Then, what if we piled up the dirt from the nearby land to make dummy hills as camouflage?”

The gigantic pile of dirt shattered against the sturdy walls of Nazarick, like waves crashing against the shore. “…[Earth Surge]. He used his skills to enlarge the effective area, as well as his other class skills…” Momonga muttered in respect. In all of Nazarick, only one person could use this magic. “That’s Mare for you. It seems camouflaging the walls is an easy task for him.

[V1]

“Yes. He’s a druid — Dyne Woodwonder. He uses healing spells and magic that controls nature, and he’s well versed in herbal lore. Let him know if there’s anything wrong with your body; he has medicine that’s good for stomach pains.”

[V2] 

Still, that was enough. After, Dyne’s first objective was to pin down one Ogre. “[Twine Plant].” Dyne cast his spell, and vegetation moved under the feet of one of the Ogres, turning into vines that tangled around its feet. Immobilized by the abnormally resilient plant life, the Ogre roared in frustration.

[V2]

That was one of Frost Pain’s abilities. That was a special move which could only be used three times a day — [Icy Burst]. It snap-froze everything in an area in front of it and caused massive damage. The wall of frozen fog was solid, and it blocked the oncoming [Fireball]. The orb of ardent flame met the wall of chill mist — by the laws of magic, allowing them to collide was the wisest choice. It hit— The scorching flames burst forth, warring with the frozen mist of ivory. It seemed as though two serpents, one white and one red, were trying to consume each other. After a moment’s resistance, both powers vanished.

[V4]

“All right, get the heavily wounded back to the village, the rest of you form up on us—” The sound of roaring fire interrupted him. Searing heat engulfed the surroundings, and the Swamp Spirits at the center of the blaze wavered. As the flames vanished like they had never been there in the first place, the two Spirits were in terrible shape. A single gout of fire had half-destroyed them. Before the Lizardmen could cry out in surprise, the fires raged once more. The Spirits could not endure the attacks and disintegrated into the roaring inferno. As the Swamp Spirits — who had demonstrated incredible power against the Beast Zombies — disappeared without a trace, the Lizardmen’s faces went blank, unable to keep pace with what was happening before them. What had just happened? They knew that the Swamp Spirits had been destroyed, but they were desperately trying to deny that reality. That was because if the Swamp Spirits really had been destroyed, it meant that there was a more powerful monster headed their way.

[V4]

Only five more still remained. However, they were the five strongest Lizardmen. Unfazed by Cocytus’s might or the deaths of their comrades, they moved out as one. A stone flew through the air. The armored Lizardman led the charge, followed by two more behind it. In addition, the two Swamp Elementals had cracks all over them after the cold attack, and lagged behind the Lizardmen because they were slower. The one at the rear incanted spell after spell.

[V4] 

Cocytus looked at Shasuryu with interest as the latter used a metamagic technique he had never heard of before. However, the two Swamp Elementals blocked his line of sight. While Zenberu’s arm gradually resumed its original form, the two Swamp Elementals attacked Cocytus with their tentacles. However, Cocytus had already slashed at the Swamp Elementals’ bodies. As the Swamp Elementals dissolved into clumps of mud

[V4] 

“[Crystal Barrier]!” The crystal wall before her eyes was cut to pieces and vanished before her eyes.

[V6]

The crystal shards had pointed tips, and originally, they should have been fired into her enemy’s body at close range to increase their power. However, she dared not approach the fiend before her too closely. She had resigned herself to death, and yet she dared not advance. Evileye could not help but mock herself for that. However, she ought to fight carefully when she did not know how powerful her opponent was. The masked demon spread his arms, as though in welcome. The shower of crystal flechettes hit him — no, they vanished before they did. So complete and sudden was the disappearance that it seemed as though they had never existed.

[V6] 

“[Sand Field – All]!” Sand particles dispersed throughout the surroundings. Although Delta was too far away to reach, Alpha was completely caught in the area. Because it would affect one’s comrades too, this spell was useless in a group fight. Any opponent within its area would be immobilized, as well as being blinded, silenced and dazed. On top of that, because of Evileye’s trump card, the sand was infused with negative energy that would drain life force. This fifth-tier spell was her own creation. It was one of the strongest cards Evileye had up her sleeve. However, Alpha did not slow down, nor did she look like she was hurt at all. “But how?!” Was she immune to immobilization and negative energy? “You deserve praise for that! What a splendid set of resistances!” Alpha’s answer was to blur into a haze. As though she had performed a shortrange teleport, she materialized in front of Evileye and kicked her in the face. Her mask cracked with a mekii sound as Evileye was flung far away. She bounced off the floor with a dang, dang before she managed to recover, groggily shaking her head. “[Crystal Wall]!” Alpha’s fist collided with the suddenly materialized crystal wall, producing a thunderous crash. Cracks spread where Alpha had struck it, as though it had been hit by a wrecking ball. “…Hmph!” Another “dang” rang out, and as Alpha’s foot struck the ground, she transmitted her inner force into the cracks in Evileye’s wall, and it crumbled before her eyes. 

[V6] 

Apparently, this was a tomb of some sort, but when they actually saw it, it seemed to be sunk into the earth itself — as though something had pressed it down, like a basin. One possible reason why ruins like these had not been explored was because the surrounding land was grass as far as the eye could see, with no remains of ancient cities nearby to draw adventurers’ attention. In addition, small hillocks of dirt were scattered around it like stars in the sky, so even if there were ruins buried in one of them, they would have missed it. The central building protruded a little, but one could only see it after climbing to a high vantage like this. Part of the dirt wall surrounding the ruins had collapsed, exposing part of the walls, which was how the ruins had been discovered. That was the shared opinion of the various teams.

[V7] 

The Empire had mobilized 60,000 knights for this operation. The garrison could house all of them, which itself spoke volumes about the base’s size. And this formidable castrum, as mighty as a fortress, was built on a piece of easily defended terrain. It was built on top of a hill. This hill was not native to the Katze Plains, but built up entirely through magical landscaping. Even the Baharuth Empire, which had adopted a national strategy of increasing the number of their magic casters, could not complete work like this in a short time. This structure had been built over a period of several years

[V9]

“The sight now — the sight of you two commanding an undead made me sure that you are my grandchildren.” Then, the floor moved. Like waves receding back from the beach, the soil roiled towards Decem. 

While he was doing this, the earthen lump that coalesced before Decem turned into something huge. It was in the form of an elemental that Ainz knew. He could hear a gasp of surprise from Mare, but Ainz was surprised as well. A Primal Elemental!? Upon seeing the elemental that couldn’t be summoned by normal means before him, Ainz instantly raised his level of caution.

[V16]

Decem was only puzzled for a moment. He immediately dispelled [Tempest]. The rain and the winds borne of magic disappeared like they weren’t there in the first place, but the wet floor and his soaked clothes proved that it hadn’t been an illusion. Decem swiped away the wet hair that was stuck to his face and saw a wall standing between him and the undead’s location. The undead probably made it when the spell was dispelled

[V16] 

Was it the undead who wanted the information, or was it the grandchildren who somehow got their hands on some information and wanted to know more? The two kids who were drenched from the rain had blank expressions so Decem couldn’t read anything from them.

[V16] 

“That’s the end of our conversation.” Suddenly, the wall disappeared.

[V16] 

“[Triplet Maximize Magic - Cacophonous Burst].” In front of Decem’s eyes, Behemoth — the invincible great elemental — turned into a large pile of dirt. He was assaulted by a great sense of — And then Decem was felt a profound sense of loss- — in that instant.

[V16]

==========================================================================

There isn't enough to say about Spiritual casters, but this might also explain why cultures with Druids tend not to also spit out lots of Clerics and vice versa - it's a slightly distinct utilization of magic. For Elves, they could use it to make Elf Trees and terraform to an extent over time in the right conditions. Druids thus would be better magical landscapers than other professions at least. And we see how they can live in harmony with trees manipulating nature to substitute for craftsmen ship. 

That might not seem like a great innovation, but Elf Tree city scaping could adapt a grove of Elf Trees to any needs, just as Decem's own giant tree and the Elven Capital proved, things can be clumped and altered to suit the needs of the needs of the people without as much disruption and material resources and labor. Likewise, it gives Rangers an added advantage as it counts outdoors and confuses non outdoorsmen. Most of all though, the bridges and platform making is far simpler than any converted materials as they can be altered over time easily and expand to an extent. 

Perhaps Druids improve over time in manipulating Elf Trees to grow. Hence the size of an Elf Tree might correlate either with time invested in it or the skill of the Druid manipulating it. 

 ==========================================================================

 From what they said, it seemed like the Elves could change the shape of trees using druid magic. Like creating cavities inside the trees or shaping bridges between trees. An Elf village was just a place where tens of those structures were bunched up together. This method of making things out of Elf Trees seemed to be at the core of Elven culture. Not just homes or furniture, they could also create weapons and armor out of it. It was possible to make the arrows they used for hunting to be as hard as iron. Ainz wanted them to demonstrate this magic as it did not exist in YGGDRASIL. They were surprised at that request because from their point of view, the tree the twins lived in was an example right there. It looked like they thought it was a mutated Elf Tree (because it looked different) that could only be transformed by those two. Furthermore, as that magic can only be used on Elf Trees, it didn’t work with other trees.

[V15] 

Minor scrapes and such can be healed by magic but poison and disease need a talented druid to cure them. So portable herbs are highly valued.” “Not clothes, since we also make them from Elf Trees” “Homes, arrows...and even clothes. Looks like Elven druid magic is very convenient. You can’t do that, right Mare? ” “Eh? Ah, y-yes. I can’t use such magic.” Perhaps this peculiar brand of druid magic itself was a mark of Elven progress. He wanted those techniques if possible, but Nazarick’s residents probably wouldn’t be able to use them.

[V15] 

Elven houses were made from short and stout trees called Elf Trees and the Royal Capital where a large number of them were gathered looked like a forest. The construction was the same as in any other Elven village, but it was especially striking when they were gathered in such large numbers. Maybe it was because they were denser in the capital, but it was overwhelming enough to pressure even him. Ainz felt like avoiding the place because it reminded him of his former gray-tinted world

[V15] 

The trees were cleared around the Royal Capital and instead converted into a large field of grass. That was not a natural phenomenon, but something the Elves did for the capital’s defense. It was made to provide better visibility, making it harder for an enemy to approach the capital without being seen. But on the other hand, maybe this could also be considered as the Elf Tree’s survival strategy He initially didn’t feel anything strange when he heard that the Elves grew Elf Trees with magic, but perhaps instead, the Elf Trees were using the Elves to multiply themselves. He could imagine Elf Trees as a kind of monster. He should probably investigate this more to find out if they were intelligent.

[V15] 

So the reason that physical or magical changes had not occurred in Dark Elves, was because on top of being the same race as Elves from the start, they were living in the same environment. There were also hardly any differences in culture, and their way of life was centered on the Elf Trees. Hence, the classes they gained were, just like with the Elves, mainly Ranger and Druid. 

[V15] 

The outer circumference of an Elf Tree had been made especially strong. It was a specially made tree that had been raised by having its growth accelerated by using magic on it many times and giving it vast amounts of nourishment to grow big and thick. The giant tree that had the sturdiness to simply repel whatever monster

[V15] 

Through the effects of magic the growth of an Elf Tree was unbelievably fast. But even though it had grown this big so far, it couldn’t be accomplished overnight. To the Dark Elves who lived together with the Elf Trees, losing one was the same as having everything stolen from them. How many sacrifices would they have to make if they weren’t allowed to sponge off the other villages until they could once more raise a big Elf Tree? 

[V15] 

The existence of the Elf Trees and the Chief Pharmacist’s knowledge were among some of the things he wanted, but they were not incentive enough for him to absolutely want them. 

[V16] 

There were certainly plans to use the captured Elves. It wasn’t that difficult to force them to cooperate by using something like charm magic. That said, using mind control magic multiple times in a short period would gradually make them more resistant to it. Also, from the experiments conducted, they found that it would take a lot of time to grow the Elf Trees from nothing even if they used magic. They were unsure about how soon the conflict with the Sorcerer Kingdom would occur, but they had estimated that there was not enough time to create a city from scratch for evacuation purposes

[V16]

=========================================================================== 

Unlike other systems, Druid magic in particular seems best suited for these long lasting, permament alterations of the physical world. And unlike enchantments, rather than material costs, it's rather more an issue of just having the medium at hand. For things like water and air those are rather trivial, and even Earth isn't too difficult. Fire might be more limited due to humidity, but so long as air is present the medium shouldn't be too hard to manifest. 

If magic having this queer distinction is weird, think of it like this - any school of magic that can harness Illusion magic fundamentally creates phantasmal occurences - ie magic that just disapperas after the duration is over with little discernible traces. After all, if it can manifest illusions using mana, it uses a similar principle for all the other magics and summoniings it does. 

Druidic magic in contrast seems overly specialized, and we see it operates closer to elemental bending like in series like Avatar the Last Airbender(if this isn't something you are used too thinking about). The chief advantage to this is the ability to have more lasting after effects though it also means you need to set up more to maximize the usability of your magic. Phantasmal magic casting traditions just shit out magic and effects - Evileye can just make giant Crystal walls with little effort in the middle of a city for example. In contrast, Decem has to use vast amounts of dirt to manfiest Behemoth. casting sotrm magic isn't so hard when you consider mos tlikely you are fighting in somewhere with air and water. 

This may be why the Lizardmen strangely enough summoned Swamp elementals and not just Water or Earth elementals - it's more a composite of water and earth, ie mud, based on the environment they lived in. So rather, it's a rare case of a composite style elemental though rather than bog like in YGGDRASIl its Swamp.  



Sunday, November 20, 2022

[Tin Foil Rambling] Slaine, World Class Items, Cyanide Resurrection, and Dark Death

Ahoy hoy: it's dat boi Ziggy (do kids even say dat boi anymore?)

Tin foil rambling is just random projections of ideas in Overlord. There are some mythological factoids in this but if you hate talking about ideas feel free to ignore this. 


Ziggy's on a real Six Great Gods bent recently. So why not talk about the elephant in the room - besides random theories like if the name of Slaine is actually "S.L.A.I.N.E." What could be more mysterious than circumstances about why the Six Great Gods came to the New World.

A long-standing theory later supported by later volumes is that World Class Items are connected to how YGGDRASIL Players come to the world. Slaine possessing one such item - the Downfall of Castle and Country supports this as does descriptions of the Nameless Spellbook, DDDL killing a Player for a Twenty, Ainz coming with a World class item as Satoru even in the side story time line, Nazarick coming alone, and so forth. 

Part of this theory was a debate however was - only one plausible world class item is ever associated with the Greed Kings yet they had a guild base (so might have followed the Guild Base transfer rules). No such structure like a Guild Base is associated with the Six Great Gods. And thus a question appears - how many World Class Items does Slaine actually possess?

At the time, many people assumed that all six were friends and came together due to proximity to the World Class Item. Nonetheless a minority always advocated that isn't also possible all six came separate with their own World Class Items? After all we later see Satoru come alone with his while the guild base never brought any outside monsters near it only itself. 

This mystery has gone mostly unaddressed in the novels up until recently. 

For now let's talk about the cases.

Base Case - the Six Great Gods all came together and the only World Class Item they had is the Downfall of Castle and Country

A very boring case but one we cannot outright disprove though circumstantial evidence suggest that this case is most likely untrue. Basically one of the six discovered the world class item and that's that. 


Individual Item Case - The Six Great Gods all came separately and each possessed a World Class Item. 


Ziggy finds this the most likely outcome ( after all we have proof Satrou came alone with just one World Class Item) and there is no precedent for the group transfer theory yet beyond guild base transfers. If we presume this is true we have some problems to address - if Slaine possesses Six World Class Items, where are they and what happened to them? We know of Three of the Six Great Gods:

God of Life - Alah Alaf

God of Death - Surshana

God of Wind - Nekonyan

God of Water - ???
God of Earth - ???

God of Fire - ???

Donwfall so far is the only confirmed World class Item. Why and how it was obtained is a mystery. As is who it would of belonged too (given it's a female looking item named after beautiful women who corrupted Kings however, if one of the Gods is a woman then likely it belonged to her). So we know it's a world class item but how was it discovered? Well the most likely is someone found it. But that's boring. An old theory was it was a reward for a beauty contest in YGGDRASIL where whoever created a character voted the most beautiful would acquire it. Ziggy likes that idea for how it was originally discovered though Momonga nor Ainz ever mention such contests. And it doesn't mean the God who had this item won that contest  - just that that was how it was first discovered. 

Of these six, we do have a tiny hint about a World class item besides the Downfall one - in Isekai Quartet's movie, Nekonyan actually possessed a crafting item of some sort that was used to create the golem girl. He called this a strange name, however, it's power effectively made an NPC loyal to him if we analyze it in isolation. Ziggy's suspicion is that this was Nekonyan's World Class Item. Many haven't seen the Isekai Quartet movie but the tie in to the Slaine arc and how strange it was the golem girl didn't actually call her true creator her master can be answered if the item responsible for her sapience was this theoretical World Class Item. Nekonyan was a Paladin after all, not a crafter and Slaine has no history of golems to our knowledge.

So what does this possible World Class Item do?

Most likely, it's a crafting item - it's real name is unknown, but it seems to convert golems into trainable NPCs or at least a Mercenary monster type NPCs(it makes it into a being that is self aware under isekai logic). That would be something in the purview of World Class Items at least. There are thematic and narrative reasons for that if we consult the inter texts which inspire Overlord. However from a YGGDRASIL game design perspective, this would theoretically let you have a "partner" a guild base style NPC that follows you around like a Mercenary. The value of that cannot be understated though we do not know how they would function in parties (do they take up a slot?). You could think of it as a scrapped design idea (likely because it can be abused too easily to make a World Disaster turret or MP slave you siphon all the Mp from going against YGGDRASIL game design). 

One idea regarding this is Rufus might actually one of these golems, like a status of Surshana, brought to life by such a world class item. So if Surshana was a Player, this would be like him leaving an NPC behind. 

But then, how did he acquire this item? Did he just find it? Get it as a gift from someone else? Perform some feat worthy of getting it as a gift from the devs? It's hard to say. One theory for example is Nekonyan is part of the Neko Kingdom guild and he may have been the last member who held onto a World class item they got for roleplaying their guild filled with cat NPCs and possibly cat names. If we see this World class item as a crafting reward, it would have been acquired then by thematically tying their guild name to not only membership names but even the NPCs. By constraining themselves to tightly, they got a world class item that frees a creation from some constraints. There's an elegance and poetry to that theory at least even if you dislike it. The most likely explanation however is the item was left to him by someone who left the game - since most world class items would of been found either in the last days of the game or legacies of other Player's adventurers based on pure probability. Nekonyan's name and the way his even named this item does suggest maybe there is some truth in their severe role playing being part of why they got a World Class Item however. 

 

It's fairly possible some other item could of been his theoretical World Class Item (like the theorized world item used for auto translation).  Ziggy just thinks his purring eyeball thingy is most likely given his roleplaying name, title, appearance, and connection to role players.

Anyway, that's the end of all the most likely World class items. 

If we're talking about World Class Items from Slaine, an extremely old theory was the Black Scripture Captain's spear was a World class item. This stemmed from it's strange appearance. Though many correctly counter that it could of been a PVP item to appear weak but is actually strong. The rebuttal here was people made theories on it's anime appearance and claimed it may have been Longinus bringing this theory back to life. To make a long story short, the people would argue it's a Pilum or Sarissa with arguments about the design. To be honest it was a bit too flimsy but many argued Slaine having many romantic (mainly French) names suggested a connection to Rome even back then. That has always supported the idea that maybe one of the Six Great Gods had a possibly Roman inspired world class item and hence the reason those names exist - and the only confirmed Roman World class item was Longinus.

Mini history tangent, Longinus is often the spear associated with the execution of Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus Christ to some, by the Roman authorities due to the politics at the time and some issues with the Rabbiatic clergy due to the divergence in Jewish belief Jesus preached. Depending on if you use the bible as historical basis or not will change the exact details. Still you get the idea how Longinus bears a Roman connection and why people would think Japanese Players would somehow influence a nation to have Roman names if they had a Roman World Class Item? If you combine two ideas - Neko Nyan was a role-player who believed in naming things after a theme like his own name suggests, then likely he could of been the one to push for using Roman names in the first place. 

If we infer through archaeology, we know that Roman numerals exist in the New World. As do clocks which use a 12 number format (12 couplings of 5). The clock tower in Re-Estize used Roman numerals (at least in the anime) after all meanwhile Climb had a pocket watch with a twelve-number dial. The anime as well has a scene of the clock tower in Re-Estize using roman numerals.

The Goal of All Life Is Death creates a clock with ROMAN numerals after all right? (see volume 16 for the illustration).

The magic item in his pocket vibrated, and Climb took it out. It was a pocket watch, just large enough to fit into his palm, with three hands ― the hour, the minute, and the second ― which traced a halo of twelve numbers. While large mechanical clocks existed, personal watches only existed within the Kingdom as magic items. As pocket watches were closely linked to everyday life, they were fairly cheap, as far as magic items went. That said, they were still not something a commoner could afford. Climb had borrowed the pocket watch which he now bore, and so it differed from regular magic items in that it possessed a magical ability. The name of the watch was Twelve Magical Power. Once per day, when the watch reached a set time, it would unleash its magic. However, one would need to have carried the pocket watch for at least a full day in order to enjoy that ability, so Climb ― who had just obtained this watch ― could not make use of its magic.

[V10]







 Of note is the clock in the meeting between Ainz and Demiruge. It audibly uses gears of some kind, just as likely the clock tower was a mechanical clock. Re-Estize doesn't practice large-scale magical engineering after all, though we know they did have a few examples of magical engineering (though less than Baharuth). 

The key point here though is ROMAN numerals were taught to the people of this world somehow. The most likely case is via Slaine as we can prove Surshana, one of their Gods, used the The Goal of All Life is Death (or had the capacity to do so). If anyone from the past saw this, they might have pondered the symbol of the clock and it's characters - and since the Great Gods passed on Earth knowledge, it would of been simple to pass on the idea of clocks and time telling. The Minotaur Sage passed on knowledge of appliances and such, so the knowledge could of even come from him though time telling isn't something that requires magic  - and typically it becomes culturally ingrained rather than innovated easily. IE the practice of mechanical clock work (possibly without magical engineering) already existed in the world. So it's difficult to tell WHERE or WHEN it originates. 

For example, the Kingdom has ties to a culture before the Demon Gods, so it might be a hold over from then. Or it might not. We know Nigun used a watch of some kind, though we do not know the style it originates from - only it seems to be inspired by YGGDRASIL watches that use Arabic numerals like most modern mathematics and even YGGDRASIL which used Arabic numerals for it's time system ( at least in the anime). Arabic numerals being 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0. We also know at least in the manga, that it seems New Worlders can read Arabic numbers. 


“It seems to be a stone plaque with symbols that look like language inscribed on it.” “Thou say’st the word ‘like’ in a vague sense…?” “Nobody understands that language. It’s not from the Kingdom or the Empire’s language, and neither does it seem to be any of the old languages from around here. It might not even be a human language. However, we did understand the number 2.0.”

[V7]


But how can we be certain the Six Great Gods taught anything like writing to Slaine? Well Eryua, in the anime and sobin character design, has the Japanese kanji "heaven/divine" written on his small chest plate. The most likely case is a few symbols or kanji were taught by the Six Great Gods though he does use a katana, something associated with the Greed Kings. It stands to reason the Six Great Gods tried to teach a bit of Japanese to the people though it was likely too complicated - especially with auto translate (which may or may have existed back then). Still, just as nations use symbols, a few kanji may have passed into culture based on association with their meanings or as symbols used by Players. Supposedly Nekonyan had a harem before he died, so the symbol of Heavenly and harems might be related in Theocracy culture based on the kanji in his own name.

Zesshi put on her helmet again and activated the power she was born with. By guiding that power into the weapon once held by a god, she could use the greatest power wielded by the god of death Surshana. And so — —– [—-The goal of all life is death] A clock manifested behind her immediately.

[V16]

Zesshi's interpretation of the The Goal of All Life is Death being a clock and being tied to Surshana would, just like Rufus's name, prove a connection between Roman numerals, latin, and clocks. Though you might interpret it differently.  You are always free to come to your own conclusions.

===========================================================================

Well anyway, back to the other Great Gods. 

Surshana is the next God we know anything about. What we know is he was an Eclipse class holder and thus acquired it in a manner similar to Ainz did in YGGDRASIL. We also know Zesshi used a scythe he used, a war spear which had many functions like a staff (and that Decem considered a staff with scythe bits slapped on instead). 

Many people presume Surshana was thus an Arcane magic caster who role-played with a scythe. However if you analyze the text of the Eclipse class, it says nothing about needing to be an Arcane caster only a Necromancer. And thus it's equally likely Surshana was a Divine casting variant of a Necromancer who role-played a God of Death. After all, that would make more sense to have a staff with melee stats if he was a Divine caster (and thus a caster with higher physical stats than an Arcane caster). 

One theory as to how he acquired a World Class Item is he met the requirements for the prestige class via pure role play and so the devs awarded him one on that basis (Eclipse being intended for Arcane casting undead necromancers since that is the natural progression). One explanation for the favoritism is as an undead divine caster, like a Death Priest, to focus on Necromancy means he likely could not use certain support spells normally associated with divine casters while still relying on summons and typical necromancy. Thus unlike an Arcane Eclipse, things like spell selection would of been a problem (being an Overlord would give him some Create Undead skills and high MP but Dark Wisdom may not work for Divine spells for example since Ainz doesn't appear to know a single healing spell). Therefore, Overlord which lack physical stats(since they are more a caster race) cannot fully utilize Cleric builds either, as they rely on physical stats  in addition to the weakness to bludgeoning it gains making it ill suited for the build. 

Still, technically, an Overlord with Necromancy as a Divine caster can still meet all the requirements for Eclipse(you just need to be an Overlord that practices necromancy in favor of anything else). Perhaps it wasn't originally possible, but the Devs allowed the change via a patch upon request once it was proven it was possible. For all we know, someone could of misunderstood a vague description of another Eclipse class holder and thought any Necromancy school worked leading to the eventual bestowal of a World Class Item for being the first to do so using an alternate and less viable route. 

========================================================================

 In normal games, most people would spread the news of a newly discovered class on walkthrough sites to share with others. However, games like Yggdrasil put a very high premium on information. For instance, few people would share news about a World Class Item with others without charge. This was especially true for classes with trump cards. The class in question was called “Eclipse.” The class description stated, “Only an Overlord who is truly dedicated to the pursuit of Death may obtain this class, which swallows up all life like an eclipse.” The move Ainz was planning to use was one which was only available after reaching the maximum level (fifth) in Eclipse, a skill which could only be used once every hundred hours. It was the trump card of the Eclipse class. That skill was called [The Goal of All Life is Death]. In that moment, a clock face appeared behind Ainz, its hands indicating 12:00. Then, he cast a spell.

[V3]

========================================================================

Obviously, he could of just gotten a World class item from a friend or found one as well. Then in that case it could be anything. 


If Surshana was gifted or found a World class item then it could be anything. However, if he was rewarded one, then the most likely cause was either related to his Eclipse class or some other feat (like perhaps using Dark Wisdom to learn all spells or something). Ziggy's take on it is since Surshana seemed to roleplay as a God of Death and acquired Eclipse as a result of this, likely as a reward he might have gotten a scythe or other God of the underworld type gift of some kind. A hint might exist in the fact that Surshana's scythe was called "Charon's Guidance". If you understand Greek mythology you would know that Charon was not actually a God of Death but instead a ferryman for the dead (one who guides the dead after death ie a psychopomp). 

Now in various games Charon is a powerful figure, and since this was likely a Player item (though it might have been a dropped Artifact) Charon either came from someone not as educated in literature or from the Devs themselves. Likely, the person who named it was Surshana given the roleplay aspect (and YGGDRASIL was more nordic themed in names or design on the dev side). A war scythe at least seems like a Player choice to appear cool rather than accurate to Greek culture or even reapers, as a true Grim Reaper scythe is not a war scythe.

Irregardless, the spells of Charon Guidance do have a Greek theme, Spartiates or Spartans for example are a rare monster that are extremely weak compared to the scythe's ability to cast Death.  That incongruous difference between Spartans and the tier of Death support the Player-side idea: though Artifacts can also drop with a wild difference in what they can summon like the jewels of the Staff of Ainz Ooal Gown which can summon Primal Elementals or Level 20 creatures. In addition, Spartiates seem like special undead summons supporting the idea the War Scythe may have been an Artifact. Another point is how many of the support abilities the scythe has are not specialized but fit a broader theme like pestilence and not instant death itself.  

 

==========================================================================

Zesshi glanced at the great scythe in her hands for a moment. Used by the god Surshana in the past, [Charon’s guidance], was made from a metal that wasn’t yet discovered by the theocracy. Its extreme toughness and killing power was suitable for being a god’s weapon. It also enabled the wielder to cast [Death] two times every eight hours. And there’s even more. [Undead Flame] that added negative energy damage to the attacks. [Undead avoidance] that protected the wielder from the undead without intelligence. [Create Undead] that literally created undead. [Disease] that could cause illness. [Sleeping to the death] that triggers a chance to destroy the undead without turn resistance in a single hit. [Evil Eye] that lets you select an ability from the different gaze effects. [Death mask] that defended the wielder from sight attacks while strengthening the fear effect. [Hand of glory] that could be used in two ways. She could choose among them and use it five times every four hours. Other than this it could also summon the special undead [Spartiate]. It was similar in ability to the fifth tier summon [Heavy skeleton warrior] but with superior gear. But they were also weaker in a sense because the buffs from special skills won’t affect them. This scythe could create a total of 30 every 24 hours, with a limit of 5 being active simultaneously

[V16]

==========================================================================

 One caveat to all of these abilities is they introduce an interesting possibility - any feat associated with Surshana could of been a product of the scythe's own abilities. Surshana may have been an Eclipse class holder yet that does not mean he got it via Divine magic or how Ainz got it either. 

The more observant people, like Decem, might argue Charon's Guidance is actually a Staff not a proper War Scythe. And thus it's less a roleplay item and more an item used in deception. An interesting aspect of illusion magic is how the strongest illusions can create tangible effects. And so the theory goes that a tiny group postulate that Surshana may have actually been a strange illusionist hybrid class with necromancy after Ainz thought an Overlord illusionist might exist. It would effectively be an Overlord that took only Necromancer and then Illusionist spells for it's racial levels letting it prestige into illusionist classes that enable dealing damage or beyond. Or rather, it could of been someone who wanted to roleplay a monster that didn't exist - an Overlord Illusionist. 

PVP was often predicated on the idea of deception after all. 

There is some textual evidence which inspired this idea:

=========================================================================

“Is shapeshifting a form of illusion? I’m more familiar with petty tricks like illusions.” 

“For starters, shapeshifting is vastly different from illusions, but explaining that will take a long time so I’ll skip it for now. However, looking down on illusions is very dangerous, you know? Illusions are a fearsome type of magic that become scarier the more skilled the caster is. Also, there are those illusionists who aren’t satisfied with a surface understanding and choose to specialize along that path.” “So it’s when they specialize?” 

“Ahh, yes. For example, there are spells like [Perfect Illusion] which can defy all five senses. And beyond that, there are those who have refined their illusions to the utmost limit, who can use a certain skill once every few days to deceive the world itself.” 

An illusion that could deceive a world was beyond her capacity to imagine. 

“Ah, how exactly does that worldly illusion work?”

 “From what I know, it’s a spell that lets you rewrite any aspect of the world, I think. Well, simply put, using an illusion like that could even bring the dead back to life?” 

“Eh?! You’re talking about an illusion, right?”

 “Oh yes. An illusion which tricks the world — the ultimate secret of illusions. By deceiving the world itself, an illusion can be made real.”

[V12]

Albedo said destroying the Kingdom would take about two years of preparation. Should I collect information until then? Expanding one’s nation means expanding contact with the outside… I ought to throw these questions at Albedo and Demiurge and get their opinions. Hm ― illusions seem to be surprisingly powerful, it might be very bad if we don’t watch out for them. It feels like you could do a lot with them if you were smart. If I meet a skilled illusionist, I should probably treat them well in order to recruit them. Fluder ― whoa

[V13]

“Is, is it dead?” 

Impossible! Suzuki Satoru thought. That single attack could not have beaten an Overlord. Could it be an illusion? Suzuki Satoru immediately ruled out that notion. Anything short of special illusions or specialized class skills were useless against undead beings like himself. Therefore, it was most likely not an illusion. No, wait, could this be something unique to this world, an illusion-specialized Overlord? Something which doesn’t exist in Yggdrasil? If we go by the basic principle of losing something to gain something else, then is it possible that it lost the ability to dominate other undead as a price for its abilities? It’s not impossible, right?

[KBA]

 =========================================================================

 The question remains - could a person even get Eclipse by being an Illusionist? Intuitively that sounds unlikely, but let's suppose Surshana balanced all his undead racials and focused on illusions. To meet the requirements of Eclipse there had to be a focus on 'death'. All the racial levels if there was ever wiggle room as Wizard spells could have then used any extra room for illusions - he just needed to cap out on all the necromancy. Similarly he could of leanred many illusion spells via Dark Wisdom via PVP.

So what possible evidence is there beyond Ainz and Satoru's ramblings?

Well there is one overarching mystery involving Slaine that never comes up and has never been answered. How did Slaine kill the Sunlight Scripture members after they leaked secrets? Ainz had his own ideas. 

However, an interesting theory that was created far later was: what if Surshana was an illusionist who brings back the dead Theocracy members? Rather than people dying when they are questioned, they might actually inadvertently be "betraying" Surshana or Rufus(if he's using an item to do it) and thus this undoes the resurrection just like any "harmful action " undoes Perfect Unknowable. Basically, by betraying the Theocracy and answering questions, they 'undo' the illusion of their own resurrection from death.

Dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun.

Wild right? That's Ziggy's own inference, but the complexity of the spell needed (something that seemed simple to Ninya and isn't widely explored given resurrection magic is rare) would indicate that few nations besides Slaine could even study such a thing. Because Ziggy believes in the Rufus = True God of Death Surshana = Body Double theory, if Rufus truly is the Guardian deity of Slaine, then as the true Player undead among the Six Great Gods, him being an Illusionist makes sense thematically AND mechanically. 

After all, he's the man who sold the world (on the idea his summon was the Player and he was the summon). 

Mechanically, if whatever form of resurrection Scripture members receive actually comes from the Guardian Deity (ie Rufus) and he's an Eclipse Player, rather than Raise Dead if he was an illusionist then all these pieces of the puzzle would click together. After all, all Illusion style spells have built-in safe guards which 'deactivate' the spell. The strange arbitrary rule of answering three questions might be a hold over of Control or Dominate spells of YGGDRASIL - depending on how the game was programmed. After all, if someone from Slaine invented a resurrection spell or method to kill people who betray the nation, wouldn't they do normally program to trigger off a single question not three?

Feel free to laugh about Ziggy's schizoid inane ramblings like a fever dream. Though rather than an Illusionist Overlord it might be related to an item instead. Dark Wisdom also makes it possible it was a learned spell outside the rules. Like, we can just as easily claim Surshana was an Overlord who accidentally kept fighting an Illusionist friend in PVP and over time mastered every Illusion spell using Dark Wisdom. And so he could of mastered all of a single school's magic and gotten a World class item that way.

=========================================================================  

Ainz did not view humanity as an enemy, but he could kill human beings with no hesitation for the sake of his goals. Even so, he wanted to avoid conflict with other Players. “Well, that was a waste.” “What was a waste?” “I’m talking about how we lost Nigun so easily. He had a lot of information, but he perished under such simple questioning.” There were roughly ten people still alive from the members of the Sunlight Scripture captured at Carne Village. The rest died during questioning and became media for Ainz to summon undead with his skills.

[V2] 

“People who have been charmed or dominated by magic might reveal the information they carry. Is there a magical countermeasure that causes people to die after being questioned several times?” 

“I’ve never heard of a spell like that.” Ainz turned, and his helmet faced Nfirea. 

“Me neither. There are ways to modify a spell so it activates at a certain time, but I don’t think they’re as elaborate as what you describe.” 

“…I see.” 

Ainz was slightly disappointed when he did not get the answer he was looking for. If that was the case, he would have to worry about how to deal with the surviving members of the Sunlight Scripture later. Since there were so few survivors left, it would be a waste to expend them to no effect. In order to discover why they vanished after death, he had vivisected them with magical medical techniques, but it had ended up as a bust. If they died from that, should he continue prying information from them? After all, losing one man meant losing the chance to ask three questions. Even more regrettable was the case of Nigun, who had been the first to die. They had lost Nigun, who knew the most, for the sake of a few simple questions. Still, that loss let Ainz know that he could not take on this world with his knowledge of Yggdrasil alone, so that could be counted as a lesson learned. At the very least, they had learned how to proceed from that failure.

[V2]

Ainz watched Crusch’s eyes as his words slowly got to her. It felt like he was about to clinch a sale. After this, Ainz would need to impress upon Crusch that the miracle he provided did not come free of charge. After all, people would suspect free things, but their suspicions would be eased if there was a reasonable fee attached to them. “I want you to secretly observe your fellow Lizardmen. Depending on how things turn out, you may be faced with a dangerous choice. In addition, to guard against your treachery, I will cast a certain spell on Zaryusu when I resurrect him. It is a spell that will instantly kill Zaryusu if I judge that you have betrayed me. It might be hard on you, but it ought to be worth it if you can get Zaryusu back, am I wrong?” That said, there’s no such spell.

[V4] 

[Perfect Unknowable] gets dispelled when you attack someone. No, to be more precise, it’s when you do something that can be considered harmful. In that case...would lifting the skirt a bit and peeking under it be considered an attack? Such a doubt never came to Ainz’s mind until now. Ainz took a quick glance at Mare’s face.

[V15]

“Well, I don’t mind if you don’t understand it yet. Let’s go.” 

He was unsure what Decem was thinking, but he approached the twins who stood rooted to their place and extended his hand towards Aura. — Ainz brushed that hand away. Determining the action as an attack, [Perfect Unknowable] got dispelled. Before Decem could turn to look at Ainz in surprise, his bony fist planted itself in Decem’s face. Decem flew away, sprawling on the ground.

[V16]

========================================================================= 

If you would entertain the following idea however, something curious about Slaine is the title of Surshana. Though considered a God of Death, his proper sect is called Darkness, not Death hence why his Cardinal is the Cardinal of DARKNESS. Everyone calls Surshana the God of Death, and even the Web Novel had him as the God of Death but mysteriously the Light Novels altered the proper term to Darkness.


==========================================================================

 The Cardinal of Darkness — Maximilian Oreio Lagier.

[V10] 

“Impossible. The oral traditions state that the God of Death, Surshana-sama, was slain by the damnable Eight Greed Kings. This must be something else. And if Surshana-sama had actually descended once more, that person would surely have told us. After all, that person is Surshana-sama’s first follower.”

[V10] 

Zesshi put on her helmet again and activated the power she was born with. By guiding that power into the weapon once held by a god, she could use the greatest power wielded by the god of death Surshana.

[V16] 

Six Great Gods descended to the world 600 years ago. Representing light(life), darkness(death), ϐire, wind, water, and earth. They created the foundations of the Slane Theocracy. The items they left behind are known as sacred relics and are kept securely locked up

[Manga]

The first priests clad in white were those who believed strongly in the god of life—-Alah Alaf. And in opposition, the priests clad in black worshipped the god of death—-Sulshana

[WN]

“….Could it be that he is a god?” When she first heard it she thought it was a joke. That the master of Nazarick looked similar to the God of Death [Surshana]. “This will be trouble. At worst it could cause a theological split.”

[WN]

The Vice-Head Priest of the Water God’s body shook. She then prayed. Not to her god, but to the God of Death [Surshana]. As if saying, please do not punish us.

[WN]

==========================================================================

Though distinct the Slaine people as well have interpreted Darkness as Death, and Light as Life. What's most telling is how the titles of their offices (and by transitivity their sects) however retain the Elemental nature of the God not the popular duality of Life and Death. 

Such deviations occur over time as symbols and figures are reinterpreted and new ideals or images are projected onto them. We cannot say what the ancient people of Slaine saw in the Six Great Gods,, but already have proof in 100 years their beliefs can radically change based on inclusive values after one historical event.

Ziggy's argument is that just like only humans not humanoids became the sole benefactors of dogma, that the possibility the God of Death was originally only the God of Darkness. The main support is the title of the God, however, the Six Great Gods being Japanese or at least Players supports the categorization as well. Often in media and games Light and Dark are "elements" alongside the primary four if the source does not use the Five Elemental model. 

Should Surshana have been an Overlord Illusionist, there actually is a connection between Darkness and illusion magic.  Darkness and Shadows are linked but so too are Shadows and illusion. Shadow Illusions are illusions that harm others, doing damage, by being believed to be real or being made real via magic even though it's also an illusion. So we could interpret his title as rather than elemental darkness it's Illusion Darkness as in the shadowy nature of higher tier illusion spells.

 Personally, Ziggy thinks that the idea Surshana was a Divine Necromancer is more viable mechanically. However, the Overlord Illusionist idea is compelling for the twist in Darkness and mechanically we have one possible example of top tier illusion being used that hasn't been explained yet. The fly in the ointment here is how to reconcile the Eclipse nature of Surshana with the Illusionist path. The only path that seems viable was to focus on necromancy and illusions, and specializing in Illusions with instant death effects. But would that be it's own pathway? There might be some spells that works for but most illusions are either non-combat or non-damaging.

The possibility Surshana was a Divine casting necromancy with a minor specialization in Illusions is possible as well - if Divine magic has less necromancy spells than Arcane magic, then Surshana would of had to select another path to fill in his spell lists. The theoretical aspects remain a subject for debate. Though both have their merits. Many will prefer that Surshan remain an Arcane Necromancer to be consistent with Ainz. 

We know that Surshana is an Eclipse user. Back to our original topic, the idea of how he may have acquired a World Class Item not by random chance is possibly related to that. Ziggy's preferred idea is he somehow found an alternative but legal way to unlock Eclipse outside the Arcane pathway. The idea he mastered more spells than anyone is also possible however, ie Surshana kept using Dark Wisdom to learn more spells even than Ainz - and thus my have been awarded a World Class Item as a result. That's just as viable and makes more sense if you believe Ainz acquired his own XXXX of Momonga the same way. It would also explain how Surshana might be using a top tier Illusion spell without being an Illusionist - he managed to acquire it via the Dark Wisdom method.

In that case however, how do we explain the discrepancy in what the world class items could be?

We don't know how or what requests Momonga might have made when getting his red orb, or if he even had a say, so it's difficult to project what Surshana might have gotten if he was in the same situation. 

One plausible idea was just as Surshana was using a Greek inspired Scythe named after Charon with Spartan summons, he may have been awarded a Greek-inspired World class item. If you know your mythology, one possible item might be the flint scythe of Kronus. If Charon's Guidance was an Artifact, it might have given a hint at roleplaying a god of death despite being a sub-standard weapon or staff war scythe. A scythe of Kronus could have possibly superior implanted summons, spells, and stats for example. Given how YGGDRASIL connected chronos and Time there is possibly some connection there as well though Chronos and Kronus are not necessarily the same being. In Latin culture they are the same at least. Kronus is also related to the God of Abraham as well so that would be  tie-in to the roman-like faith of Slaine.

That introduces the possibility that Surshana was roleplaying not to just be an edgelord but rather to match an item's description. Charon's Guidance, the item's name, might be a hint for example to follow it's own guidance. Of note, Kronus and his scythe predate the idea of the Grim Reaper, and so his scythe retained the meaning of a farming implement though he did use it to castrate his own father. 

Just because Surshana had a scythe doesn't mean it unlocked another Scythe. For example, it's fairly possible that following Charon's Guidance could unlock the Helm of Hades as well. Given Hades is the God of the Underworld. It could even lead to getting the Bident of Hades, a two pronged trident.  The Helm of Hades introduces an interesting possibility - in myth it was just a helmet that conferred invisibility, but given Hermes used it for trickery, it also carries with it notions of subterfuge. One possible mechanic a World Class Item version a Helm of Hades could confer is it allows one to use all Illusion spells as if they were a dedicated Illusionist. After all, Surshana's World class item could of been earned purely by solving some riddle hidden in Charon's Guidance and the reward could be thematically linked to that item or another scythe variant. 

Curious no? Ziggy thinks so at least, given by sheer coincidence we can find another glimmer of illusionist theming when trying to ponder what World Class Item Surshana might have. That would resolve the discrepancy in Surshana being an Eclipse user but possibly using one of the top tier illusion spells. But what do you think?

For the Gods of Fire, Water, and Earth we have very little to go on. Almost nothing in fact. The God of Light as well. Maruyama does mention that Zesshi could possibly use two Einherjars, so some interpret that one of the Six Great Gods was a Valkyrie as well though her Talent could also work for her own weapons. IE since she can use Einherjar, any weapon she has used to be used to tap into her own Trump card again to summon a second Einherjar. Given the hax nature of this, she might not have figured that out though given her age we do not know how she knows an item has trump cards she can use. 

We do know one of the Gods had long black hair and was probably a polearm user given Zesshi and the Captain's preferences, and Zesshi's mother used healing magic. The inference is that one of the Six Great Gods was a Fighter Cleric hybrid of some sort. If we assume that God didn't get their world class item randomly, then the fact they may have been a spear user suggest that the theoretical Longinus was their world class item but that could just be a coincidence. 

Returning to the list:


God of Life - Alah Alaf -???

God of Death - Surshana - Helm of Hades/Kronus Scythe

God of Wind - Nekonyan - Crafting Item

God of Water - ???-???
God of Earth - ???-???

God of Fire - ???-???

-Downfall of Castle and Country; Longinus?

 

We can account for four of the possible six world class items. 

An interesting tangent to Nekonyan's crafting item is the theory that Rufus, the guardian deity of Slaine, may be an NPC crafted using that item instead of a body double. So rather than a Player or Undead Adjutant, Rufus would be an NPC created by Surshana possibly after the other Gods died to protect Slaine should something happen to himself. Given how the item was used in isekai quartet, that is a possibility even if many might not want to admit it. Ziggy prefers Rufus = Player theory using the Surshana body double more based on other details, but an NPC created with a world class item is a compelling idea that also answers the mystery as to why Rufus can sense Surshana's return.

Ziggy likes the Helm of Hades world class item for several reasons. The first is it would explain the problem with the Illusion resurrection and his own build without argument. However thematically, the Helm of Hades also connects it to Hades (duh). That's worthwhile because in mythology, one idea about Hades is that he didn't used to be so possessive (like of Persephone) and dour, but became that way over time.... almost as if inhabiting the role he was given by his younger brother Zeus. That fits the idea of Ainz becoming the role Satoru Suzuki plays as well and he himself being a Skeletor Sauron esque type figure. It also helps that the Helm of Hades is also called the Helm of Darkness and Ainz is the King of Leading Darkness (kappa). 

Ziggy would be happy if none of these come true, but if they do, that just shows Maruyama does factor in themes into how he constructs his own writing. The Helm of Hades just feels right however. It could be the Crown Ainz wears at the end of the series, being a Crownless King no longer (his hood being character design foreshadowing). Well, Ainz has crowns, but nothing so powerful and fancy. he would really be the "Undead King" or Sorcerer King at that point, wearing a World class item crown. And it would also be a way to tie Slaine to Nazarick (in an ending that isn't a retread of Re Estize). But most of all, it would introduce a loop hole for Ainz to get even stronger without breaking any rules - getting stronger gear always strengthens people after all.

 Ziggy thinks the idea of a World Class Item or powerful YGGDRASIL artifact being responsible for the Sunlight Scripture "deaths" would explain a lot at least. The Helm of Hades and top tier Illusions seem to be the most likely YGGDRASIL origin for such a contingency resurrection using the Illusion rules in an interesting twist. What do you think though?

==========================================================================

Anyway, most of that is thematic and thread knotting rambling (though Ziggy is pretty open this is all tin foil nonsense). Talking about ideas can be fun though... Ziggy thinks so at least. Still, head canon will remain head canon, a truth that is probably not fact. If Rufus does have a Crown or Helmet of hades though, rather than being random it might just be proof Maruyama does think ahead and uses themes. he did claim he hasn't deviated from the story he has written. Maybe if that comes to pass people won't criticize him as harshly.... If nothing else, hopefully your eyes are more open to how various mechanics like illusion rules might have been adapted into the New World.

Happy head canoning though!

Friday, November 11, 2022

[Poorly Translated Lyrics] Overlord Mass for the Dead - Mass for the Dead(original opening song)

 

果てまでFalling to the dark 何も構わない[I don't mind at all completely FALLING TO THE DARK ]

暗中の未来を掴めよ[I'll grasp the future that lies within this darkness]

罅(ひび)割れては溢れ出したChaos and taboo [It's become clear these cracks have begun to overflow with CHAOS AND TABOO]

混沌の模様はToo gross[The pattern of Chaos is just TOO GROSS]

We are the irregulars? 真実(こたえ)はバグだらけで[Or perhaps WE ARE THE IRREGULARS? Reality is riddled with bugs. ]

こんなCrazyなThis world [THIS WORLD is CRAZY like that]

悪欲の行為が 正義を為すのなら [if the an evil person's acts succeed it's called justice, ]

What the hell! In this hell [WHAT THE HELL! IN THIS HELL]

果てまでFalling to the dark 何も構わない [I don't mind at all completely FALLING TO THE DARK ]

善悪捨てて 己のChoiceを[Cast aside Good and Evil for my own CHOICE now]

Falling to the dark 止めさせはしない [I can't stop FALLING TO THE DARK ]

暗中の未来を掴めよ[I'll grasp the future that lies within this darkness]

異形の者が交わるならThe war must happen[THE WAR MUST HAPPEN should we cross paths with the grotesque(heteromorphic)]

罅割れてくThis world [THIS WORLD fractured with cracks]

最後に残る者が 正義と言うのなら [The last person standing shall be called justice]

Winner is you? Winner is me? [WINNER IS YOU? WINNER IS ME? ] [Are you the winner? Am I the Winner?]

晒されBlowing in the wild 誰も応えない [Not everyone is burdened by what is exposed about them BLOWING IN THE WILD]

孤独を極め 一つを選べ [One can resolve to bear the solitude until the end]

Blowing in the wild 賛同も否定もない [Do not deny someone's approval of BLOWING IN THE WILD]

心中の声を追いかけろ [Chase after the voice in your heart]

It’s a booby trap そう探すほど迷いは終わらない [IT'S A BOBBY TRAP, so long as you keep searching you will continue to lose your way]

It’s a monkey dance さあ愚かでもただ進むしかない [IT'S A MONKEY DANCE, it is foolish but nonetheless there is no choice but to move forward ]

果てまでFalling to the dark 何も構わない [I don't mind at all completely FALLING TO THE DARK ]

善悪捨てて 己のChoiceを [Cast aside Good and Evil for my own CHOICE now]

Falling to the dark 止めさせはしない [I can't stop FALLING TO THE DARK]

暗中の未来を掴めよ [I'll grasp the future that lies within this darkness]]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EuQGFDE7Hk&ab_channel=MFTDVN

Song Link

ZN: Bugs is tongue in cheek for vermin and computer glitches.

[Poorly Translated Lyrics] Cracked Black - Overlord Mass for the Dead Song

 

No one there if I go back

Nothing here it's only black

何処に光など在ろう[Where could the light be]

罅より溢れ出す非情 全てを...[The cracks are overflowing with callousness...]

嗚呼、それは尊き夢と 築き上げてきたもの [Oh, it derives from the precious dreams I had built up]

Down in this sad and cracked affair

Drowning in mad and cracked despair

今よ悪魔たれと願う[Now I only wish to be the Demon instead]

Down in this sad and cracked affair

Drowning in mad and cracked despair

残滓に粒の光 探す Where is my...?[WHERE IS MY remaining droplet of light I am searching for ....?]

掻き集めるこの手 深く傷つき[These deep, stinging wounds amass when raked up]

滴り落ちるは 涙だけで足りない痛み[Even the trickling down tears do not measure up to the pain]

Down in this sad and cracked affair

Drowning in mad and cracked despair

進むほど覗く暗闇 [As we deteriorate we quickly glance into the darkness]

Down in this sad and cracked affair

Drowning in mad and cracked despair

時が絶望を指し止まる[To be confined face-to-face with the days of despair]

No one there if I go back

Nothing here, it's only black

何も見えぬまま[Nothing's in sight with how things are]

Down in this sad and cracked affair

Drowning in mad and cracked despair

今よ悪夢たれと願う[Now I'm praying it's merely bad dreaming]

Down in this sad and cracked affair

Drowning in mad and cracked despair

残滓に粒の光 探す Where is my...?[WHERE IS MY remaining droplet of light I'm searching for....? ]

Down in this sad and cracked affair

Drowning in mad and cracked despair

No one there if I go back

Nothing here, it's only black

灰を握りしめ誓う[And so I pledge myself to these ashes I've latched onto]

Full Song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os-x4sBUWfc&ab_channel=Nix77

[ZN: Rake up is a real expression: "revive the memory of an incident or period that is best forgotten".]

[ZN: Demon and Dreaming lines are supposed to relate to each other with a slight variation as the kanji for Nightmare and Demon are similar in design and sound similar in Japanese]

[Article] Our Sus Lord and Sus

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/336onlvj8oyn4gh/BearsAndLords.pdf/file

ttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1gMAef69U_mpGHoILcQUN1imYxoz8XqK1/view?usp=sharing