"I Survive Bad Rolls and Have Extra Powers Just Because I'm Blessed By The World(read:I am the DM's Girlfriend), You Survive Bad Rolls Only With Ingenuity and Saving Throws, We Are Not the Same"
Look up, it's ....!
Ah.......It's actually just Ziggy.
Bump Bump Ba Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuump.
Ahoy hoy.
Do you know the trope of the DM's Girlfriend?
If you don't get ready to learn!
It's a pretty simple concept - It's someone that has the DM biased toward them and they make decisions in their favor all the time. It's like having a bad boss favor a bad coworker who doesn't do their job competently, is a bad team player, and rationally doesn't deserve special treatment. But they get it anyway.... because they are the DM's girlfriend.
Today the joke here is people with Talents are sort of like the DM's Girlfriend, in this case the World's Girlfriend.
Funny right?!?!??!?!?!!?
....Maybe not.... Well anyway did you expect Ziggy to be witty and clever? Shame on you. SHAME!
Anyway....... Talents are not exactly the DM Girlfriend effect. HOWEVER.
HOWEVER!
HOWEVER?
Hmmmmmmmmmm. There are rules to it. it's not just extra cheats. Genius bonuses have rules and limitations as well after all. Does that make sense? Ziggy knows it's hard to make sense of Talents with how vague the series treats them as after thoughts up until someone pulls off some deus ex machina bullshit just because 'Muh Talent'.
So previously we talked about Blood Bought Miracles (patent pending). If you can come up with a better name for that go ahead, Ziggy is a pretty muh namer of stuff. Anyway, the curious thing about Blood Bought Miracles (minor rule breaking using a price paid in blood) is unlike Mana Oversaturation, which breaks rules on the condition of continual payment of mana (Decem's OVERSummoning, OVER meta magic, rituals, etc) is that Blood Bought Miracles are performed by casters AND non-casters to break the rules of the world in limited ways so long as a price is paid.
It's something between a universal mechanic and just a feat with certain status condition requirements... Our next focus is on something you might have noticed thanks to the last volume, though it existed before. Do you recall the strange reaction Ainz had to Antilene surviving Petit Catastrophe?
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In return for consuming enormous mana, its damage surpassed even the super tier magic that Ainz could use. Of course, still it was not as powerful as the [Grand Catastrophe]. But the raging torrent of energy born from it was enough to blow away everything in an instant. The very next moment, Zesshi was hit by tremendous energy. Bad, gonna die Zesshi immediately realized. The fierce currents of energy blew away the earth elemental in an instant. She finally realized at that moment, that the earth elemental was neither a countermeasure for Einherjar nor a wall to let the girl escape. It was nothing more than a decoy, to keep Zesshi and her clone from escaping that single tyrannical attack. And in reality, her Einherjar also disappeared just a moment after the elemental did. Following that — – —–not yet! I will not die! I WILL NOT DIE! In the eye of the destruction raging around her sweetly whispering to her to give up and take it easy, Zesshi brought all her vitality to the fore to bear through it. But — ——her consciousness weakened. She could no longer sense the pain that had been stinging all over the body before. She could no longer even sense if she was still standing or where she was. So this was how death felt like. What the heck is this
[V16]
“You did good, taking her down without killing her, didn’t you?” “Y-yes. I also thought that I ended up killing her with [Petit-Catastrophe], but, it looks like she had a lot of vitality, so luckily she didn’t die.” “You used [Petit-catastrophe]!? . . . . . . . . . to think she didn’t die from that. . . . . . ..that human is certainly strong. Mare had been really fortunate. . . . . . ..So what happened to the elf king?”
[V16]
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HAX
Or is it? Think back a bit to a few other times this has happened, people surviving things when they shouldn't have:
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“Could it be those people I killed in that store were your friends? Are you mad because I killed your buddies~?” Clementine continued in a mocking tone: “Ufufufu, that magic caster was soooo funny. Until the end he believed that someone would save him~ but how could he hold out that long against my attacks with just that little bit of health… Or could it be he was hoping you would save him? Sor~ry, I killed him.”
[V2]
―He had to buy time for Enri. That thought was what drove Nfirea to move. Making note of the Troll’s upraised left arm, he ran forward and to the left. Seeking life in death, he plunged head-first into danger to reach the safety beyond it. The Troll’s fist followed him, and the wind of its passing ruffled his hair. And in front of Nfirea, a mighty foot kicked out at him like a moving wall. Nfirea’s vision spun wildly as he flew through the air, his body making cracking sounds like shattered tree branches. He hit the ground hard and rolled several times, like a piece of discarded rubbish. Pain coursed through Nfirea’s body, which was still rolling over the ground. This was the most pain he had experienced in his life. “But, but I somehow managed to survive. That’s amazing. I’m amazing…” He had hung on to life was because of the effects of his defensive spell and the fact that the Troll’s footing had been poor when it had kicked him. Ignoring the pain that shot through him with every breath he took, Nfirea stood, and loosed another spell.
[V8]
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You may or may not able to add Keno to this list though when she was 'dying' and outlasted everyone else that might be because she was using her Talent so it's iffy.
But whoops. Cat's out of the bag now. For some reason, these people with talents all sort of 'survived' stuff or for longer than they should of. What gives?
Ninya still died but Clementine, an experienced murderer, didn't quite understand why she could take so much damage. Likewise, Nfirea was amazed he survived though he rationalized it as circumstances. But Antilene proves something - she had no business surviving Petit Catastrophe.
Maybe Brain not dropping dead right away after using Soul Ignition / LEsser Soul Ignition and being able to live for a minute was thanks to his Talent as well? Hard to say, given he's the only one we've seen do that. Brain however did pull off another miracle... one not paid for in Blood!
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Right now, if someone had converted their ability into data and compared them, he would undoubtedly be cheering for Brain. Indeed, it was a miracle, like the sun rising from the west, a sight that would fill people with awe and respect
[V6]
Brain Unglaus had yet again, achieved something impossible. He did not know this himself. The true nature of his Talent was an increase in his focus capacity, only with this and the addition of his higher levels was he able to activate the martial arts required by [True Nail Clipper]. But, even so, Brain had his limits. He could not use any more martial arts than that, a limit imposed upon him by the world. But, in that moment — Brain broke the rules of this world once more. A second miracle of this kind. The first was when he cut Shalltear’s nail. The second, was made in this moment.
The consequence of breaking the rules was that his body began to deteriorate.
His body probably couldn’t last for even one more minute
[V14]
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NANI!?!?!??!!!?
Yeah, strange to see Maruyama openly declare both are 'miracles'(magical bullshit no one can explain rationally). But clearly the Nail Clipper was not a Blood Bought Miracle.
Now for whatever reason people with Talents not only have special powers with no apparent cost, they can just perform miracles and have DM Fiat! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAX.
Why though? How does that work? Why would having a Talent mean you can survive stuff you shouldn't have... how does it let you perform miracles without a price paid in blood unlike others? Maybe this is the conceit of the world, the World's Blessing, it's favor.
Or perhaps, Talents are something different... What even determines what Talent you get in the first place? Why do they vary in potency too? There is a plausible answer, though it might not be readily apparent to you all. But that is a discussion for another day, another time.
Clearly people with Talents are more 'magical' than others. one thing many people do not account for how do they power their Talents or use them without classes or levels?
One thought is Talents are sort of like what Base Ten Bonus Feats - just it's a Bonus Feat you can only get at birth. Think like an Inherited Template (eg Crush, Beebeezee's inherited lordship, etc). If we apply the idea of Bonus Feats it's an Inherited Bonus Feat, meanwhile Base Ten bonuses are Acquired Bonus Feats, requiring at minimum ten levels to acquire.
Still, Acquired Bonus Feats require an investment of levels to get... Talents do not....Strange....
one thing to consider however is how Base Ten Bonus Feats do not give you new ultimate powers - they merely augment or access pre existing powers, they are ancillary things like OVERsummoning, summon range extension, using multiple magic systems at once.
Talents are somewhat similar, many Talents do things like let you walk weird, see weird, or use powers on certain conditions. Though apparently some Talents exist to copy Tier magic effects to an extent?
The distinction here is Talents augment basic functionality or core rules of the world, Base Ten Bonus Feats augment features of classes, bypass usage restrictions, or allow stacking of stuff in weird ways.
Nfirea is the best example - he can just ignore core rules about magic items and scrolls. Likewise Antilene ignores class requirements all together, just like Keno's talent does. Stats can still affect the potency of the Talent but not the usage of it. Keno's talent is so strong it lets her even use Super Tier magic, something only Players should have. Draudillon's talent lets her use Wild magic by the same logic.
So what's with this universal mechanic for Talent Bearers (hur hur) to survive shit they shouldn't?
One thought is whatever powers talents tangentially lets you perform this 'feat'. Something has to power Talents just like how classes and levels seem to be needed to power skills. Whatever this 'power source' is, it's not Blood, and it's not tier mana.
But what is it? Is it Olde Mana? But then wouldn't Draudillion be able to use her talent but then lock herself out of it if Talents and Wild magic shared the same power source?
Something's strange...
It's quite the rabbit hole isn't it?
What could it be.......................?
Here's a hint from Ziggy if you look closer, really ponder the meaning of Talents- REDACTED.
(250 pages of Overlord theoretical magical rambling are torn out here)
-and that's why Brain can perform miracles without a price paid in Blood!
IT ALL MAKES SENSE!!!
Who knew the anime hinted at this too! Maruyama's such a nerd. But let's keep that a secret between you and Ziggy!
Still, that doesn't address our core mystery of WHAT fuels these processes... mana, souls, blood, so long as you have 'fuel' you can bend reality to a certain extent. Then what the hell is fueling talents? Talent Slot theory suggests every being has a 'Talent slot', that's why you only ever see people with ONE Talent. But that doesn't answer what fuels the ability in this slot. Something worth noting is how Maruyama differentiates between EVOLUTION(levling up) and how Classes grant power instead of seeing them as the same thing.
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Ah, one can also train[tanren] their body[nikutai] in addition to this. This may seem like a game explanation yet, there is foundational physical strength [su no kinryoku] (which can be trained) + Level Up Physical Strength (evolution [shinka]) + and various corrections from classes etc (power that comes from unfathomable magical power [maryoku tekina fukashigi no ryoku]) should be the plan.
[V5+6AT]
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"That's stupid!"
Is it?
Think for a moment, can't Climb use Limit Break Mind to gain temporary levels? Meanwhile Renner can use Genius to copy certain class skills but with no stat bonuses?
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Then next Climb’s Martial Art [bugi] “nouryoku kaihou” (Limit Break -Mind) (a temporary + 1D3 Warrior Level increase [senshi reberu]?)
[V5+6AT]
“…Say, that, this, umm.” The sounds coming out of Renner’s mouth did not match the atmosphere of the room just then at all. “Can I hold the sword for a moment?” “Eh? Okay, yes!” After he handed over the sword, Renner drew it out. “It is quite heavy.” Renner handed the sheath to Climb. The blade of the Razor Edge was honed and could cut through armor like paper. Before Climb could say “It’s dangerous,” Renner began to wave the sword around in the air. Climb was a little shocked. Indeed, because of the weight, her movements were wobbly, causing the tip of the blade to nick the floorboard. That was purely because she did not have enough strength to wield it, because her training still shone through her stance and movements. He could feel the sharpness of the blade from afar. If a man without experience were to swing this sword around, he would not have been able to make the sword gleam the way it did in her hands. “Uuugh — Hmmm. I’m not too suited for this.” “N-no, not at all. I believe that if you trained more, you should be able to win against me in a duel.” “You jest. Plus, it is unlikely that I will ever hold a sword again.”
[V14]
It hasn’t been very long but many people seem confused, Genius is a potential substitute for all Normal job classes, it can even be modified into Prostitute and carry out it’s function. And it improves the technique (Gijutsu) Level to that of a Pro..... Without question it’s amazing.
[TWTR]
Therefore, he wanted to teach Climb something else. He felt that there was a limit to one’s abilities, but not limit to one’s experience.
[V5]
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On the topic of Geniuses... Genius modified classes don't have bonus levels yet they confer bonuses as well... They also let you cheat without paying a price...... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Q: Can you elaborate on (Genius) modifiers? Do they get more skills, unique skills, or more skill points?
A: A Genius differs in various ways. For example, the number of magic spells learned increases slightly. However there is never a time when they become incredibly strong.
Q: How did Nfirea and Remedios get the Genius modifier? Was it present in Yggdrasil? Does it apply only to Job classes only? Say can it be applied to (General)/Monster/ Racial levels?
A: It’s a natural born talent. No [it wasn’t in Yggdrasil]. Only Job classes [have the Genius modifier].
[TWTR]
“Martial Art! [Ability Boost]! [Greater Ability Boost]!” These martial arts were his pride and joy. [Greater Ability Boost], in particular, was a martial art that someone of Eruya’s level should never have been able to learn. But I learned it, so I’m a genius! I really am very strong!
[V7]
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Brain was a GENIUS and had a Talent so these things are distinct. Just like how Level Bonuses do not correlate with whatever Renner's Genius class grants. The simplest explanation is plain level bonuses (growth potential or POWER LEVEL) is a different power source than Skills, that's where Gazef says you can cap out on LEVEL limits but not on SKILL limits. It's not a mind blowing differentiation of course, but it explains why Renner can impress Climb but stat wise it doesn't make her better. Conversely it shows how Climb can get STRONKER but it doesn't magically make him better.
This is a tangent but Ainz's Perfect Warrior for example doesn't grant him skills at all nor does it let him instantly be a better warrior. He has to train himself to get better. In this case this is the infinite potential of YGGDRASIL beings to an extent - they can improve at things with practice even if they cannot get more levels doing it.
Weird to think of these as distinct topics though right?
So then where do CLASS(Genius) users fall in? Brain was like uber skilled and Eruya was supposedly quite talented as well, but they also get cheat bonuses (even if minor)... just.... like Talents....
But Brain was a Genius AND had a Talent.....
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Clearly these people are just dating the World! It's the only explanation!
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Why are there now two bonuses we cannot explain that fuels them?
Well there IS an explanation for Geniuses having bonuses, though in the story it's not explained or easily defended. You have to basically rely on external rule explanations to understand it's both a joke and a reference... And it does sort of have a basis in the mechanics as something that does exist that could be used as fuel or to power things... But that might require a lengthy article on what MANA or FUEL can be and how it works beyond just spell casting.... Basically think about what Focus really is in Martial Arts and how that seems to power bending of reality too. If Fighters can do that, like a janky magic casting system, you might see a basis for that with Geniuses.
But what of Talents? Mechanically in the story you CAN explain how they work and vary in power. But what powers them seems almost phantasmal.... There does seem to be a correlation between how good your Talent is and your Growth Potential however. There is one hint... it's so often forgotten that it's amazing no one bothered to explore it further. Once you analyze the significance of it however you see that Talents and Geniuses may be more closely related than you think. Though the distinction is Genius are tied to specific classes, meanwhile Talents are tied to something else (like a Talent slot).
Sorry Ziggy is being so vague...
There just isn't a lot in the main text to substantiate this without copious amounts of number crunching and an entire dissertation on a specific subset of Magical Natural Philosophy.
Remember though, Ziggy is always wrong and you are always right! Maybe you can discover the truth inside all this rambling and beating around the bush. BUSHWHACKING!
Think of it like this though to return back to the original mystery here - why Talent users are so tanky. If Geniuses can get bonus power ups AND be uber skilled at their classes... we can sort of frame this as each conferring bonuses in different ways.
Geniuses
MLG pro at their classes
Get minor bonus cheats
Talent Bearers
uber tanky and have minor plot armor protection
Get bad to Plot Hax bonus cheats
One is a clear 'cheat' or basically a super power beyond what the rules would normally allow. Hell, Nigun's Talent gave him a power up just like if he was a Genius Summoner.... ie a stat bonus beyond what his classes should of given. For the Geniuses, they also are like have some sort of relation to SKILLs and what makes someone GUD at a class. So if Talent Bearers have cheats maybe the SKILL they have related to being CHEATERS is.... whatever this plot armor cockroach power is?
Both are New World only things so its at least worth exploring them with the same framework right?
In a sense they are both 'cheat' powers, though which is better really depends on context and situations. Ziggy's goal here isn't to answer that question but rather introduce the very idea that Genius classes and Talent Bearers might be operating on a similar framework distinct from the PRICE MIRACLES.
Price Miracles - Miracles you can manifest at a cost (Blood Paid Miracles, Soul Ignition, Mana Oversaturation like Decem's Over summoning or OVER meta magic or Arcane Acolyte class bonuses)
Basically both Talents and Geniues are Intrinsic Miracles, blessing you are born with. It's not that different from how there are Inherited and Acquired Templates for example. Price Miracles are ACQUIRED MIRACLES. Talents and Geniuses are INHERITED MIRACLES.
Does that make this topic bouncing around make more sense?
Talent Bearers are filthy cheaters! Fuq this cruel, biased World!
But Ziggy digresses. It would do well to reevaulate your own work and head canon with this new context. Of why different magical founts or sources produce different miracles in different contexts, and why there is a distinction between ACQUIRED and INHERITED MIRACLES.
Bye bye for now my smol children. May you get into pointless bickering with people about mechanics fondly together! Or maybe not so fondly.... Back to the great air jail kennel in the sky Ziggy goes!
Autism-Man, Away!
/(o_o)/
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